WI: TR killed in Spanish-American War?

Let's suppose that when the Rough Riders storm Kettle Hill, Roosevelt is shot, and sadly, killed. So, no Governor Roosevelt and President Roosevelt. How does this effect history?
 
You sir, have just committed a sacralige here at AH. A couple of the almight standards: TR is infalable, Wilson was pure evil, and everything is made better with Zepplins.
 
I see that the fundamental flaw in this thread, the implausible premise of Teddy Roosevelt being subject to death as if he were a mere mortal, has been addressed...:cool:
 
Much as this pains me as one of the strongest proponents of TR, I'll try to address it objectively with a few thoughts:

  • The rise of the progressive movement will still occur but will be delayed. It will be in the hands initially of capable but lesser men such as Indiana's Albert Beveridge, California's Hiram Johnson, and Missouri's Herbert Hadley.
  • Chances are that Charles Fairbanks becomes McKinley's running mate in 1900 after Garrett Hobart's death. I suggest that Fairbanks will win a full term in his own right in 1904, but it will be a relatively close race (two relatively conservative candidates), and may prove to be the high water mark for the Socialists, running on a platform that says you can't tell the difference between the Republicans and the Democrats.
  • The '08 election would probably feature Bryan for a third time for the Democrats against Charles Evans Hughes: in OTL, Hughes was considered briefly as a candidate in '08; in this TL, I'd say he gets the nod and wins the election.
  • Hughes wins a second term in 1912.
  • It's difficult to imagine the events of June, July, and early August 1914 in Europe unfolding differently than they did in OTL: America's impact was nil in OTL, and would probably have been non-negligible only if (you guessed it) TR had been president. But since he's not, I'm guessing Hughes might have offered to arbitrate (not mediate) based on TR's precedent in the Russo-Japanese war and based on his judicial background. I'd bet the offer gets turned down, since the Kaiser wouldn't know Hughes, and he (the Kaiser) would be the key: if he doesn't play ball, the whole idea falls flat. So: war in Europe erupts as it does in OTL.
  • A wild guess: Hughes' offer to arbitrate doesn't go unnoticed elsewhere; it may just give Mexico pause about any chicanery on the US border. If not, I'd bet Hughes has enough advisors that would advocate a short punitive expedition into Mexico: not enough to be a major war, mind you, but enough to drive home the point not to do it again. The point is that US forces, such as they were at the time, aren't tied down when...
  • ...the Lusitania is sunk as it is in OTL. Guessing this time with the GOP in the saddle and no "too proud to fight" nonsense, the US goes to war in 1915.
  • A corollary: Hughes' naval policies were continuations of those of Fairbanks and McKinley; i.e., building a no-nonsense fleet. That could make a difference in the Atlantic, and it's just possible that some US capital ships might tilt the balance at Jutland.
That's what I can think of offhand. You take it from there.
 
TR dies and no VP Roosevelt means Mark Hanna gets his own choice for William McKinley's VP. The Progressive era as we know it is butterflied away and YMMV on whether this is merely going to mean the USA is very, very much more unpleasant or whether or not the USA goes theocratic/commie/fascie.
 
The constant use of the TR meme killed this thread...

of that i agree.. but i couldn't resist.

I would agree however that had he died.. well we wouldn't be having the topic of conversation since his biggest claim to fame was the rough rider cowboy kicking Spaniard butt back across the ocean. and being assistant secretary of the navy.

Obviously the biggest effect would have been no president TR.. which in turn could/would lead to an even more corrupt nation run by big business interests in a quasi-fascist democracy.

TR defined the early 20th Century, and the idea that the Government can stick up for the little man. With out that.. doesnt look good.. With out someone of TR's enormous ego the progressive movement may have just fallen flat on its hat so to speak.
 
of that i agree.. but i couldn't resist.

I would agree however that had he died.. well we wouldn't be having the topic of conversation since his biggest claim to fame was the rough rider cowboy kicking Spaniard butt back across the ocean. and being assistant secretary of the navy.

Obviously the biggest effect would have been no president TR.. which in turn could/would lead to an even more corrupt nation run by big business interests in a quasi-fascist democracy.

TR defined the early 20th Century, and the idea that the Government can stick up for the little man. With out that.. doesnt look good.. With out someone of TR's enormous ego the progressive movement may have just fallen flat on its hat so to speak.

Or alternately President Long....:eek::eek:
 
Or alternately President Long....:eek::eek:


I sometimes think Huey gets a bad rap by the establishment... he was a man of the times.. maybe a tad unbalanced.. but the folks from Louisiana seem to love him to this day.. he got stuff done.. (Not always cleanly and with a stepping on a few million toes)

would he be an ardent racist prick? not so sure.. would he be a commie or a nazi? not so sure.. He was after all American.. and America in the 1930's during the great depression was very much not the America of today. Could definatly become a cult of personality type thing, but if he got too out of whack .. congress would just impeach him and throw him to the wolves. (wait isnt that what they said in Germany around the same time?!?)

folks from the 30's if ISOT'd to today would have no clue what to make of the nation.

(still glad he didn't become president though... )
 
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