WI: Tora Bora actually is a mountain fortress

During the lead up to the Battle of Tora Bora, the cave network was described as a massive terrorist fortress in the media. The media published theoretical layouts of Tora Bora (as seen below) which seem to present the place as an incredible supervillain hangout. No matter the case, Tora Bora was portrayed as an incredible base in western media which it simply never was.

So, what if at some point, the Taliban government of Afghanistan combined with al-Qaida resources actually manage to build the base seen below? How will the Coalition forces deal with it? We'll assume that Osama bin Laden escapes to his hiding holes elsewhere during the initial attack, but the Coalition forces don't know this and continue their advance on Tora Bora regardless. We'll also assume that Osama orders all defenders of Tora Bora to become martyrs in the al-Qaida/Taliban cause to make fighting for the place as hard as possible. With these major casualties, how will the War in Afghanistan evolve, and how will it be perceived domestically, especially since Osama bin Laden has escaped once again?

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Pangur

Donor
Its a tad hard to see just how the US would have competely missed the construction of something like this but never the less if they did once they come up against the base they would surround it and let the bombers go to work. It would end up being a very fancy and expensive bomb for the defenders. The first bombs dont penetrate? the USAF go up the scale in size.
 
Its a tad hard to see just how the US would have competely missed the construction of something like this but never the less if they did once they come up against the base they would surround it and let the bombers go to work. It would end up being a very fancy and expensive bomb for the defenders. The first bombs dont penetrate? the USAF go up the scale in size.

I'd envision that it is built in the late 90s using a mixture of Taliban funds and whatever Osama can skim off from the bin Laden group.

So basically the thing is endlessly bombed by the USAF? Is there any chance for the Taliban or al-Qaida to gain anything based on this huge committment of aircraft? Any domestic repercussions from potentially aircraft being shot down?
 

Pangur

Donor
I'd envision that it is built in the late 90s using a mixture of Taliban funds and whatever Osama can skim off from the bin Laden group.

Fundihg for it? I will give that a pass.


So basically the thing is endlessly bombed by the USAF? Is there any chance for the Taliban or al-Qaida to gain anything based on this huge committment of aircraft? Any domestic repercussions from potentially aircraft being shot down?

All they would gain is death, its that simple TBH. After 9/11 to use an Australian phrase, the US had the shits and there were going to draw blood. Losses? they were ready for some. Thinking about it, give some thought to the Japanese on Iwo Jima and Okinawa. All nicely dug in and all that - did them no good
 
I'd envision that it is built in the late 90s using a mixture of Taliban funds and whatever Osama can skim off from the bin Laden group.

So basically the thing is endlessly bombed by the USAF? Is there any chance for the Taliban or al-Qaida to gain anything based on this huge committment of aircraft? Any domestic repercussions from potentially aircraft being shot down?

I have to assume that their ability to shoot down B-52's or anything large like that to be effectively nil, and their military position was already unsalvageable by December, so this doesn't appreciably help them.

Of course, I don't think we'd see an actual assault would be in the cards regardless. We were pretty determined to subcontract this one out to distinctly unmotivated Northern Alliance forces. Facing an actual Hall of Doom wouldn't make them or us any more enthusiastic about an assault, so we might just try to lay siege or something.
 
All they would gain is death, its that simple TBH. After 9/11 to use an Australian phrase, the US had the shits and there were going to draw blood. Losses? they were ready for some. Thinking about it, give some thought to the Japanese on Iwo Jima and Okinawa. All nicely dug in and all that - did them no good

The Japanese defenders gave the US enough of a fight in their hopeless fight to make the battle enter historical memory. Compared to OTL Tora Bora which is mainly remembered for the escape of Osama bin Laden. I'm presuming Osama will escape regardless, but the battle will be spun as a massive and decisive victory over terrorism and the Taliban regardless once their incredible fortress is defeated at the cost of many Northern Alliance and Coalition lives. Would this mean that soon the US Navy names a ship USS Tora Bora to commemorate the fight?


Certainly, but how much use would they be against this version of Tora Bora? Is this hypothetical underground fortress that vulnerable?
 

Pangur

Donor
The Japanese defenders gave the US enough of a fight in their hopeless fight to make the battle enter historical memory. Compared to OTL Tora Bora which is mainly remembered for the escape of Osama bin Laden. I'm presuming Osama will escape regardless, but the battle will be spun as a massive and decisive victory over terrorism and the Taliban regardless once their incredible fortress is defeated at the cost of many Northern Alliance and Coalition lives. Would this mean that soon the US Navy names a ship USS Tora Bora to commemorate the fight?

I agree with every word of this - well apart from the USS Tora Bora which is I think a maybe - Good God, just had a very painful idea/preview of the various movies that this would bring about - Cripes - Tom Cruise in a sequel of Top Gun :p:p

Certainly, but how much use would they be against this version of Tora Bora? Is this hypothetical underground fortress that vulnerable?

Everything is vulnerable to a bomb. If there is nothing in availble then there is no shortage of companies will to develop one
 
Cordon the place off, and start blowing up the exits. Leave one exit open and make it clear anyone can exit through there as long as they immediately surrender. Starve them out.
 
Cordon the place off, and start blowing up the exits. Leave one exit open and make it clear anyone can exit through there as long as they immediately surrender. Starve them out.

This. Like I said, the Northern Alliance led the charge here, and they were determined not to take needless casualties doing it. A real fortress would only reinforce their caution.
 
I'd envision that it is built in the late 90s using a mixture of Taliban funds and whatever Osama can skim off from the bin Laden group.

It'd be hard enough for an intact, wealthier nation-state to build something like it, much less a ramshackle government that was economically crippled by decades of war and never controlled the entire territory of Afghanistan. And even more doubtful they could make it GBU-28 proof, which is what the US will be dropping on it en masse.

(It'd probably be the first structure hit, since it'd be too big to keep a secret, and Afghanistan had very few fixed targets of significance OTL. Now they do have one.)
 

Archibald

Banned
The irony of History is that ISIS terrorists aparently dug a crapload of tunnels below Mosul and Raqqa... perhaps ISIS is better than Al Quaeda when digging hole like rats.
 
Cordon the place off, and start blowing up the exits. Leave one exit open and make it clear anyone can exit through there as long as they immediately surrender. Starve them out.
My first thought was 'bomb all the exits, go home'. But I suppose they might want some prisoners...
 

James G

Gone Fishin'
The fortress is a death trap for those there. The Americans have the knowhow, weapons and motivation to blast it. They can surround it as a fixed target and attack it from above. This is what they will excel at and prefer rather than fight a militia / guerrilla force out in the open who'll use civilians as human shields.
 
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