WI: The USSR keeps the whole Russian Empire

[Xachiavelli]

Basically, i've always wondered how things would have gone if the USSR kept Poland, Finland, Moldova and the Baltics.

Obviously, we're dealing with a much more powerful USSR and a fairly different WW2 but beyond that i'm not entirely sure. I'd like to think that with a much larger pool of manpower, that Stalin could have fully taken East Turkestan in the 1930s, perhaps with an added POD where the situation there gets worse.

Also, as somewhat of a side-note, could the USSR/Russian Empire reasonably have taken any Ottoman territory as a result of WW1?

 

[Meadow]

Basically, i've always wondered how things would have gone if the USSR kept Poland, Finland, Moldova and the Baltics.

Obviously, we're dealing with a much more powerful USSR and a fairly different WW2 but beyond that i'm not entirely sure. I'd like to think that with a much larger pool of manpower, that Stalin could have fully taken East Turkestan in the 1930s, perhaps with an added POD where the situation there gets worse.

Also, as somewhat of a side-note, could the USSR/Russian Empire reasonably have taken any Ottoman territory as a result of WW1?

How do they do it? The circumstances are just as important as the borders in 1939.

 

[Xachiavelli]

How do they do it? The circumstances are just as important as the borders in 1939.

How do they do what in 1939? Are we talking about how WW2 starts?

 

[LHB]

Basically, i've always wondered how things would have gone if the USSR kept Poland, Finland, Moldova and the Baltics.

Obviously, we're dealing with a much more powerful USSR and a fairly different WW2 but beyond that i'm not entirely sure. I'd like to think that with a much larger pool of manpower, that Stalin could have fully taken East Turkestan in the 1930s, perhaps with an added POD where the situation there gets worse.

Also, as somewhat of a side-note, could the USSR/Russian Empire reasonably have taken any Ottoman territory as a result of WW1?

If the POD is during the Russian Revolution and you have other revolutions get hot in Europe it could be possible for the Soviet Union to regain the old Russian Empire, possibly even more.

If you're talking WWII why would they want to? Stalin's strategy in the post-war was to create a cordon of puppet states to serve as a barrier between the Soviet Union and the West. Annexing territory in Europe means more territory to control, turning the Cold War hot much sooner, and a population that needs to be sat on. Setting up puppet states in Eastern Europe had all the benefits of direct annexation with none of the headaches.

 

[Meadow]

How do they do what in 1939? Are we talking about how WW2 starts?

No, I mean how does the USSR 'keep the Russian Empire'. They fought a war against the Poles in an attempt to do just that, and they lost. Do they win this time? Do they fight wars in Finland? In Moldova? The Baltic States? Does WWI end differently as a result, or did it end earlier before these states were freed?

All these things could have huge impact on the years 1917-1939, so it's rather meaningless to fast forward to then without knowing how the USSR maintained the Tsarist Empire's size, that's what I meant.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Well they could keep Finland, if the Red Finns had more support. Even that is a longshot though. The Baltic Republics, well at a later date they may be capable of just having them as glorified satelite states.

 

[BBadolato]

Even if the USSR does keep the former Russian Empire, whose to say for how long, wouldn't the USSR have to worry about ethnic 5th columns, potential foreign interventions and unholy alliances.

 

[General Tirpitz]

Baltic independence wars were actually quite close calls. In early 1919 half of Estonia and Lithuania were occupied by communists while whole Latvia was basically controlled by the Latvian Socialist Soviet Republic. If you get somehow Reds win in Finland, Finns couldn't sent volunteers to Estonia (5000 volunteers which was actually rather sizable force taking account the size of the country) which could be just enough so that communists can conquer Estonia and then move their forces southward.

 

[whitecrow]

Baltic independence wars were actually quite close calls. In early 1919 half of Estonia and Lithuania were occupied by communists while whole Latvia was basically controlled by the Latvian Socialist Soviet Republic. If you get somehow Reds win in Finland, Finns couldn't sent volunteers to Estonia (5000 volunteers which was actually rather sizable force taking account the size of the country) which could be just enough so that communists can conquer Estonia and then move their forces southward.

Any way for the Polish-Soviet War to go better for the Bolsheviks too?

 

[General Tirpitz]

Any way for the Polish-Soviet War to go better for the Bolsheviks too?

Stalin helping Tukhachevsky to take Warsaw instead of spending his time fighting in Lwow could possibly help. There's a danger though that Germans might act if Soviets do too well. (The Allies already had allowed Germans to fight against Soviets in Baltic states so there is a precedent.)

 

[General Tirpitz]

Here's something the Soviets planned to do with Lithuania and Belarus which I find somewhat interesting:

Lithuanian–Belorussian Soviet Socialist Republic or as it seem to be more commonly called, Litbel. I must admit that I'm not entirely sure about reasoning behind this experiment. It existed for about seven months in 1919 before it was dissolved.

 

[DrakonFin]

Baltic independence wars were actually quite close calls. In early 1919 half of Estonia and Lithuania were occupied by communists while whole Latvia was basically controlled by the Latvian Socialist Soviet Republic. If you get somehow Reds win in Finland, Finns couldn't sent volunteers to Estonia (5000 volunteers which was actually rather sizable force taking account the size of the country) which could be just enough so that communists can conquer Estonia and then move their forces southward.

Indeed. Not only that, but the Finnish Red government might well send its own "volunteers" to help the Reds in the Baltic area, whether on its own volition or by being pressured into this by the Bolsheviks.

I have always been of the opinion that Finland going Red in 1918 might have started a cascade effect of the Baltics falling into Bolshevik rule, maybe even Poland and some of the former A-H areas. And made the resulting *Soviet Union more internationalist and more positive about the idea that revolution can be exported.

But, then again, making Reds win in Finland seems such a damn tough proposition. Maybe we should put together a Finnish task force on the board and go at it?