WI The US won in Vietnam
- Thread starter PhoenicianLegacy
- Start date
...as evidenced by the commercial disaster of the first Rambo movie...
...which by definition excluded the South Vietnamese regime as it existed.
Rambo was a way for many to get revenge on the North Vietnamese for winning the war. Many of the Hawks needed to blame someone. Most people who went didn't give a rats ass who the bad guys were.They could have been lets see, oh say jungle living Eskimoes. It was just an action movie with Stallone.
I'm not suggesting that most people anywhere glorify bad things done in the past. I'm sorry if you feel that I am.
I'm not suggesting that most people anywhere glorify bad things done in the past. I'm sorry if you feel that I am.
IMO, the biggest WI about Vietnam is what if the people of South Vietnam were not conquered by a oppressive Communist NOrth Vietnam.
Especially with the OTL example of the Free and Prosperous South Korea as a Could Have Been standing there.
Do you even realize what you're saying? It would amount to mass murder of the Vietnamese people, and - given that it's basically the failed OTL strategy screwed up a couple of notches - not necessarily going to work either. In any case, I'd say it's a loss for all sides as the US will gain some kind of pariah status.
EDIT: Maybe next we'll hear some kind of proposal involving nuclear weapons to finally destroy the "enemies".
Why choose "Free and Prosperous" South Korea? Why not Burma, East Timor, Guatemala or Paraguay? For that matter, why aren't they a "Could Have Been buried there" instead of a "Could Have Been standing there"?
Well, that's it for you.
You have long history of actions for insults, flamebaiting and general trolling.
You have at least three posts, just in this thread, that are actionable.
As I wrote in a previous kick message -
Today is that day.
We divorce you.
To Coventry with you.
Now we have the other side of the Vietnam war coin, the "kill 'em all and let God sort them out" BS.
As much as those who declare all things American evil, those who fantasize about the U.S killing half of the population of North Vietnam equating victory are flat out idiots.
Advocating genocide is a Banning offense. You just earned it.
We divorce you.
To Coventry with you.
Two Bans in less than four pages. over Vietnam.
Good Christ people. The was ENDED for the U.S. in 1973, ended overall in 1975.
That was 38-40 YEARS ago. Get past it folks. If you can't post in a civil manner about something that happened before around 3/4 of the members here were even born, don't post in these sorts of threads.
As a reminder: Advocating mass murder is a Bannable offense. Implying someone is a Nazi is a kicking offense (at minimum) as are insults like calling people bigots or evil.
I'm going to just leave the Ban Hammer here next to the desk to soak; if anyone else wants to be self destructive, now's the time. No point in cleaning off the guts twice in one day.
Good Christ people. The was ENDED for the U.S. in 1973, ended overall in 1975.
That was 38-40 YEARS ago. Get past it folks. If you can't post in a civil manner about something that happened before around 3/4 of the members here were even born, don't post in these sorts of threads.
As a reminder: Advocating mass murder is a Bannable offense. Implying someone is a Nazi is a kicking offense (at minimum) as are insults like calling people bigots or evil.
I'm going to just leave the Ban Hammer here next to the desk to soak; if anyone else wants to be self destructive, now's the time. No point in cleaning off the guts twice in one day.
I'm always shocked at how much hatred and stupidity come up when there are discussions about the Vietnam War.
People always seem to go to the extreme when talking about the Vietnam war, both ways.
It was a horrible, horrible war where horrible things happened. I love discussing the political and military decisions being made during the war, as well as the more darker parts but i always stay away from it because of what happened in this thread. Its such a shame because in many ways it is a better discussion then WW2. Partially because its still close enough to people(especially Americans), which of course also brings in the emotions.
I hope people can keep their emotions in check next time the Vietnam War comes up.
People always seem to go to the extreme when talking about the Vietnam war, both ways.
It was a horrible, horrible war where horrible things happened. I love discussing the political and military decisions being made during the war, as well as the more darker parts but i always stay away from it because of what happened in this thread. Its such a shame because in many ways it is a better discussion then WW2. Partially because its still close enough to people(especially Americans), which of course also brings in the emotions.
I hope people can keep their emotions in check next time the Vietnam War comes up.
Technically speaking though, wernt the Linebacker operations (ie the bombing campaigns) pretty much America's only offensive successes in Vietnam?
Though thats more a statement of how much America sucks rather than the bombing campaigns being a good idea.
I really don't understand why the Vietnam war is so emotional even today. For heaven's sake even the Vietnamese themselves have gotten over it and hold no grudge against the US. It's almost incredible that some people refuse to buy Vietnamese products...because Vietnam successfully repelled an invasion?!?!
But whatever unresolved issues in the US surrounding the war, don't the Vietnamese people have larger ones (e.g. Agent Orange, undiscovered bombs, social trauma, etc) by magnitudes? Why have the Vietnamese themselves gotten over them?
More like survived.
One of the real tragedies, perhaps the greatest, regarding the Vietnam War is that nobody won.
The North wound up with the ground, which is "winning" for what it is worth. It also wound up with an utterly devastated economy and country that to this day is grievously damaged.
The Viet Cong were effectively obliterated during Tet, not because the U.S. or ARVN forces suddenly get smart, but because the Hanoi government tossed them into the fire as cannon fodder with the goal of wiping them out due to political differences.
Many residents of the South, be they Catholics, "intellectuals", or former parts of the South Vietnamese government, wound up in "re-education" camps or fled to an uncertain, often fatal future (the "boat people").
The United States was nearly ripped to pieces by the unrest the War ignited (might have happened anyway, but the War really set it off), lost better than 50,000 men, and has never quite been able to accept the outcome (this thread giving some excellent examples of that).
The entire event stands as a textbook example of what stupidity looks like when nations demonstrate it.