WI the United Kingdom wins war of 1812

MI1/2

What if the United Kingdom won the war of 1812 how much land could they claim from United States in a peace treaty ?

Potential POD
Napoleon does not escape from Elba or does it after war of 1812 permiting the UK to focus on defeating the United States and the UK government want to permanently weaken United States or at least make sure it does not expand more possibly by creating Indian protectorates in land the claim as buffers against united states also maybe have Louisiana be like OTL Hong Kong to ensure UK control entry to Mississippi river
 
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Mildtryth

Mildtryth

I don't think the British would be annexing much land - their position in the start of the negotiations of the Treaty of Ghent was to create a Indian buffer state out of the Northwestern Territory and getting some transit rights on the Mississipi.
 
OxSpace

OxSpace

Your POD is, realistically, to late for Britain to secure a true "victory" in the war. Britain demanded quite a lot at Ghent but it became far too apparent as negotiations stalled that there was very little Britain could do to truly enforce their demands. The military campaigns in Baltimore, New York, and eventually New Orleans were all failures & domestic support for continuing the war was rapidly declining.

IIRC, the demands that Goulburn moved forward with initially was followed:
  • Separation of an Indian buffer state, a polity that neither America or Britain could acquire land from -- this was intended to be a buffer between the US & Canada. The borders were never properly defined as the demand was soon dropped as Britain realized trying to strip away 1/3rd of the pre-LP United States was absolutely ludicrous. It was suggested that the 1795 Greenville Treaty line be used; yet this suggestion was one of ignorance as the treaty had long been canceled by agreements more favorable to the US by 1814 & Goulburn was unaware of the some 100,000 white settlers living in the area.
  • The Great Lakes would be, militarily, exclusive to the Britain. Britain almost demanded the entirety of the shores & waters of the lake, but magnanimity prompted to only insist for no American warships in the Great Lakes or forts or ports on the shores. Commercial navigation was still permitted.
  • Some sort of revision boundary from Lake Superior to the Mississippi.
  • Britain will still exercise her right, from the 1783 treaty, to navigate the Mississippi.
  • Parts of Maine would be ceded to create a direct route from Halifax to Quebec
  • Moose Island, one of the Passamaquoddy Islands would be recognized at British.
 

MI1/2

OxSpace said:
Your POD is, realistically, to late for Britain to secure a true "victory" in the war. Britain demanded quite a lot at Ghent but it became far too apparent as negotiations stalled that there was very little Britain could do to truly enforce their demands. The military campaigns in Baltimore, New York, and eventually New Orleans were all failures & domestic support for continuing the war was rapidly declining.

IIRC, the demands that Goulburn moved forward with initially was followed:
  • Separation of an Indian buffer state, a polity that neither America or Britain could acquire land from -- this was intended to be a buffer between the US & Canada. The borders were never properly defined as the demand was soon dropped as Britain realized trying to strip away 1/3rd of the pre-LP United States was absolutely ludicrous. It was suggested that the 1795 Greenville Treaty line be used; yet this suggestion was one of ignorance as the treaty had long been canceled by agreements more favorable to the US by 1814 & Goulburn was unaware of the some 100,000 white settlers living in the area.
  • The Great Lakes would be, militarily, exclusive to the Britain. Britain almost demanded the entirety of the shores & waters of the lake, but magnanimity prompted to only insist for no American warships in the Great Lakes or forts or ports on the shores. Commercial navigation was still permitted.
  • Some sort of revision boundary from Lake Superior to the Mississippi.
  • Britain will still exercise her right, from the 1783 treaty, to navigate the Mississippi.
  • Parts of Maine would be ceded to create a direct route from Halifax to Quebec
  • Moose Island, one of the Passamaquoddy Islands would be recognized at British.
Click to expand...
What if UK won in New York,Baltimore and New Orleans and were complete success?
 

GullibleCynic

Gigi Gold said:
What land *could* the UK plausibly get?
And can they get more later in subsequent decades?
Click to expand...
Plausibly? Maybe an Indian buffer state that would be joined up to an ALT Canada down the road.
Less plausibly? New England that breaks away during a different Hartford Convention as a protectorate, Louisiana purchase area as a shared condominium with Spain (but really under British control), as well as the aforementioned buffer state.
All of that plus the concessions OxSpace mentions would be a lot though. Britain would have to have trounced the US in order to get away with demanding that
 
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