WI the UK Gov developed jets instead of final gen piston engines.

Blair152

Banned
Let's suppose that in 1939 the Air Ministry decide that the various very high power piston engines, Bristol Centaurus, RR Vulture and Napier Sabre are proving to be more trouble than they are worth and put their faith in Dr Pye's recommendation of Sqn Leader Whittles new engine. Then they put Power Jets into the hands of Hives at RR instead of Rovers.

The use of Rover to develop the engine in OTL put back the entry into service of the engine by over eighteen months at least.

Then instead of getting Gloster, a company whose last design was a biplane! to design the first jet powered aircraft for the RAF the best designers in the industry are commisioned to submit designs.
The UK did develop jets. Remember the Gloster Meteor? I think it was powered by Frank Whittle's jet engine.
 
Yes, but too little too late. The only jet to jet combat in WW2 was when an Arado 234 bombed the airfield in Belgium where the only 4 deployed Meteors were based and one Meteor was hit with shrapnel. What would be cool is if there were dozens of Meteor MkIIIs with the 2400lb thrust DerwentIIIs fighting the Arados and Me262s.

As for the OP, perhaps the Germans would put more effort into jets (ie higher quality material allocation) and we'd see considerable jet to jet combat in 1944/5 which would be very cool but not overly significant in world terms.
 
Let's suppose that in 1939 the Air Ministry decide that the various very high power piston engines, Bristol Centaurus, RR Vulture and Napier Sabre are proving to be more trouble than they are worth and put their faith in Dr Pye's recommendation of Sqn Leader Whittles new engine. Then they put Power Jets into the hands of Hives at RR instead of Rovers.
The use of Rover to develop the engine in OTL put back the entry into service of the engine by over eighteen months at least.
Then instead of getting Gloster, a company whose last design was a biplane (wrong)! to design the first jet powered aircraft for the RAF the best designers in the industry are commisioned to submit designs.
To quote from Furse (Freeman's biographer)
"He also included Frank Whittle's jet engine in a limited class of 'war winning devices', and devised arrangements for its development and production. Whittle was determined not to allow his enterprise to be swamped by one of the established aero-engine companies, and had himself proposed collaboration between his firm Power Jets, and Rover. The extreme difficulty of agreeing formal terms of co-operation between the two companies, and their intransigence, obliged Freeman and Tedder to insist that they worked together .... "
Even, later when the industrial & aero-engineering capabilities of this arrangement were found to be lacking, Whittle was still resistant to the idea. Nevertheless R-R took over the Rover factories with Rover being compensated by having the R-R Meteor tank engine factory.
IMHO - unless Whittle was an engineer in an established aero-engine company, rather than a 'maverick' development is most unlikely to be dramatically earlier.
That is: the Air Ministry wouldn't have invested more or earlier - no money about, and its too theoritical.
And, Whittle wanted to be in control not swamped by a big company.
So, sure it could be tweaked by weeks, or months - but years - no.
 
Months would be good enough. Have FIIIs ready to be deployed in wing strength by late 1944 and you will have the first jet battles.
 
They did have a couple of monoplane prototypes between the Gladiator and the Pioneer- the F.5/34 fighter, which was supposed to compete with the Spitfire and Hurricane and allegedly inspired the Zero, and the F.9/37 night fighter which competed with the Beaufighter and Mosquito, and could have entered production had Gloster not been busy building jets.

If Gloster had got their 'finger out' and the F.5/34 (Guardian ?)prototype's flight had been earlier - it might have got a contract e.g. as insurance against problems with the Merlin. As it was it was praised by those who flew it - shorter take-off, better inial climb rate,and more manoeuvrable than the Hurricane & Spitfire, and with only a 840hp Mercury reached a max speed of 316 mph at 16,000 ft.
The Gloster twins - a long line of designs, from the Spec F.5/33 Bristol Aguila powered turret-armed two-seater, through F.34/35, F.9/35, and the F.9/37 - which reached speeds of 360 mph in April '39, to F.18/37, F.11/37 and the F.18/40 - the latter with a cockpit more like the Fw-187, was to be called the Reaper, and although the Air Ministry wanted it - it was expected to be better than the Beaufighter - MAP wanted the space for the Jet fighter. Yet, an earlier design would have suitable aircraft to carry cannon - in time for BoB - better than Blenheims!
 

Blair152

Banned
Have you ever considered the British developing a hybrid engine? The
United States, in 1945, was developing the Consolidated Vultee XP-81. It was a hybrid airplane with a turboprop engine. Problem was, that both protoypes were cancelled because the engines leaked. One protoype was
scrapped after the war. The other's in the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, in Ohio. Go to this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/Consolidated Vultee XP-81 .
 
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The 2nd meteor prototype has turboprop engines.

What I want to know, and I know this is anal early jet fighter trainspotting, is could the FIII Metoer cut it with the Me262 and A234? I think that with the Derwent III engines with 2400lb thrust and the long nacelles which allowed a level speed of 490mph and a mach limit of .8. The 262 had a level speed of 540mph and a mach limit of .84 but the eninges were shit in comparison to the Derwnet IIIs, which had more power and were much, much more durable.
 
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