WI: The Teutonic Knights invaded the Balkans?

I note how you don't list, for instance, Egypt.

Or Persia.

Neither are comparable, as the armies of both were outdated and fought with only the token musket and artillery piece. At least until Abbas, that is. Still, the Ottoman achievement in military professionalism and technology did make them unmatched in Europe, even against such juggernauts as Poland.
 
Neither are comparable, as the armies of both were outdated and fought with only the token musket and artillery piece. At least until Abbas, that is. Still, the Ottoman achievement in military professionalism and technology did make them unmatched in Europe, even against such juggernauts as Poland.

The point was that they represented more of an accomplishment on the part of the Ottomans to beat up than say, Serbia, which was no more advanced (than Persia or Egypt) and smaller.

Maybe I should have written it better.
 
Until mid 15th century they were still powerful (Muscovy cased to be their tributary only in 1480).

They were increasingly unstable to the point that rulers were changing hands every year. The only reason Muscovy stopped paying tribute so late is so they could make sure that they were no threat at all and by that point they were confident in their abilities.
 
When did this turned into Ottomans vs. Poland-Lithuania ?

Probably when I pointed out that the Teutonic Knights got stomped on by Poland-Lithuania "which was less impressive than the Ottoman Empire" (paraphrased).

Though, it might just have given people an excuse.
 
They were increasingly unstable to the point that rulers were changing hands every year. The only reason Muscovy stopped paying tribute so late is so they could make sure that they were no threat at all and by that point they were confident in their abilities.

It didn't help that the PLC was established by a rather lucky marriage - and one in regions where hereditary rule wasn't very strong.
 
To get back on topic a few of you were saying that The Teutonic Knights would over take Wallachia. I don't think any of you mentioned how or when they would get it seeing as it was part of the Second Bulgarian Empire and later taken by the Cumans. Also, I don't really understand where is their point of origin, are they coming from the Outremer, the HRE , or Prussia?
 
To get back on topic a few of you were saying that The Teutonic Knights would over take Wallachia. I don't think any of you mentioned how or when they would get it seeing as it was part of the Second Bulgarian Empire and later taken by the Cumans. Also, I don't really understand where is their point of origin, are they coming from the Outremer, the HRE , or Prussia?

They are coming from Burzenland, a region in Southern Transylvania, mainly modern Brasov county, Romania. A Hungarian King, Andrew II, if I remember correctly, invited the Order to settle there, but in OTL, after a conflict with the King, over some taxes or something, they were evicted. From there, we all know what happened, Konrad of Mazovia inviting them to Prussia.

Now, we were considering the possibility that the Order could consolidate it's position in Transylvania and start crusading against the Cumans. From what I know, Wallachia was either only nominaly a part of the Second Bulgarian Empire, or it wasn't at all. I think this confusion is made because of the title of the first Asens, "Tsar of the Bulgarians and Vlachs", but this title doesn't reflect the Bulgarian hold over Wallachia, but over Vlachs, which in that time lived South of the Danube, as well.

I don't know why, but when I posted a similar thread a few weeks ago, it didn't get all this attention, and I've abandoned the idea.
 
excerpt from the wikipedia article on the Teutonic Knights:
"In 1211, Andrew II of Hungary accepted their services and granted them the district of Burzenland in Transylvania. Andrew had been involved in negotiations for the marriage of his daughter with the son of Hermann, Landgrave of Thuringia, whose vassals included the family of Hermann von Salza. Led by a brother called Theoderich, the Order defended Hungary against the neighbouring Cumans and settled new German colonists among those who were known as the Transylvanian Saxons, living there before. In 1224 the Knights petitioned Pope Honorius III to be placed directly under the authority of the Papal See, rather than that of the King of Hungary. Angered and alarmed at their growing power, Andrew responded by expelling them in 1225, although he allowed the new colonists to remain."

I'm kind of confused who Hermann was. Also what would the POD be so that King Andrew II allows them to keep Burzenland?
 
excerpt from the wikipedia article on the Teutonic Knights:
"In 1211, Andrew II of Hungary accepted their services and granted them the district of Burzenland in Transylvania. Andrew had been involved in negotiations for the marriage of his daughter with the son of Hermann, Landgrave of Thuringia, whose vassals included the family of Hermann von Salza. Led by a brother called Theoderich, the Order defended Hungary against the neighbouring Cumans and settled new German colonists among those who were known as the Transylvanian Saxons, living there before. In 1224 the Knights petitioned Pope Honorius III to be placed directly under the authority of the Papal See, rather than that of the King of Hungary. Angered and alarmed at their growing power, Andrew responded by expelling them in 1225, although he allowed the new colonists to remain."

I'm kind of confused who Hermann was. Also what would the POD be so that King Andrew II allows them to keep Burzenland?

Hermann, the Landgrave of Thuringia, is pretty clear who he was, while Hermann von Salza was the Grandmaster of the Teutonic Order, at the time, and a very good friend of the Pope, among other influential personalities of Europe.

For your second question, check out this thread I was talking about : https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=199202
 
So from what ThomasTheviking said there are two options for the POD:

1. The Teutonic Knights could ask the Pope in secrecy without letting King Andrew II find out-> Pope recognizing their request-> excommunicating King Andrew if he tries taking back Burzenland-> Teutonics support or take part in an uprising against King Andrew's attempt to take back Burzenland-> uprising succeeds, Teutonics have Burzenland

2. After King Andrew returned from his crusades he became unpopular, because of the higher taxes he imposed due to the financial cost of the crusade among others. -> royal family member starts a coup to dethrone him-> Teutonics support family member in coup-> coup is successful-> Teutonics keep Burzenland

The second one sounds more interesting but I would need to get more info on the royal hungarian family at the time and see which of them like the Knights and would actually cooperate with them in a coup. Also I would need to do more research on Burzenland cuz I have no clue what it was like under Tuetonic rule. From their I could go on about how they get Wallachia and so on.
 
Well, if they have a base in Venice, its not necessarily that far.

But then, Constantinople is ~600 miles from Serbia. That's a long way.

Referencing this to put the distances in perspective.

Ah. I thought the OP meant from their territory in the Baltic. Well, in that case, it wouldn't be that out of the question.
 
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