WI: The Tecks Inserted Into The Württemberg Succession

After the death of his son, Prince Ulrich, and/or the childless remarriage of Ulrich's father, King Wilhelm II of Württemberg, Queen Victoria floated the idea to Wilhelm (or his gay uncle, King Karl) of de-morganatizing (not sure what the term is) the Teck branch, who were married to her Cambridge cousin, Mary Adelaide "Fat Mary". The king (who's mother apparently once entertained hopes of him marrying Princess Beatrice) politely told Victoria to sod off. Now Victoria wasn't asking out of the milk of human kindness either, she disliked the fact that Fat Mary was more popular than her, and still more that they (the Tecks) couldn't live within their means. Her attempt was thus to kill two birds with one stone: 1) get Mary out of England and 2) ensure that theTecks had a decent income (an heir presumptive would be entitled to a far larger income than a mere morganatic cousin) and thus could afford their lifestyle (doubtful, more money usually means more debt, not less).

So, WI Wilhelm, depressed as he was after his son died, decides "what the Hell", and that if the Tecks can pay the "Nobility Tax" (know this was how it worked in the HRE, not sure about after it's dissolution), he'll insert them into the succession
 
No takers? I thought it might be interesting to see how things pan out following an alt-WWI. Queen Mary was rather fond of her brothers (among whom would then be the future King of Württemberg), plus two of the Cambridge-Teck boys, (Prince Rupert, Viscount Trematon; and later Prince Frederick of Cambridge, nephew to both Queen Mary and Alice of Coburg, Countess of Athlone) were both considered during the early rounds of marriage candidates for the future Queen Juliana of the Netherlands. Unfortunately, Rupert died in a car crash, and Alice didn't entertain a high opinion of Frederick calling him "awfully shy and stupid" in a letter to Queen Wilhelmina, which caused the Dutch queen to scrap him from the list.

So, Württemberg could've been in an interesting place at Versailles. Technically it's a German country, but the heir presumptive to the throne is the brother to Britain's queen, and possibly his son is being considered for marriage to the Dutch crown princess. But that's all in the future, we first need to get the Tecks inserted into the line of succession.
 
It's certainly interesting. Unfortunately I don't know enough about Wurttemberg to comment.

I don't profess to be the expert on it, either. I just know that the marriage between Duke Franz of Teck (who married Mary of Cambridge)'s parents, Duke Alexander of Teck and Claudine von Kis-Rhedey was regarded as morganatic. Now I know that Württemberg had a specific set of house laws declaring who was regarded as equally-born and who as morganatic. But I also know after a perusal of them, that there could be a loophole. For instance, all Württemberger royalty descends from Karl Alexander of Württemberg and his wife, Auguste of Thurn und Taxis, and thus, Thurn und Taxis, although neufurstlich and not meeting the standards for altgraflich specified, is regarded as an equal match, as was proved in the marriage of Prince Paul Wilhelm of Württemberg and Princess Sophie of Thurn-und-Taxis. So I'm sure that the king could find some legal mumbo-jumbo if given the right incentive to do so.
 
Let's say that Wilhelm II/Karl does find the legal hokum to insert the Tecks into the Württemberger succession, what will this change in the event of the Tecks moving back to Germany? How might the non-morganatic (the Urach branch is morganatic, and in any case, they'd be junior to the house of Teck) branch to succeed (descended from Duke Alexander, Duke Friedrich II's seventh son) react to this leapfrogging? The Alexandrine branch is Catholic at this point, but has connexions to the Habsburgs and the house of Orléans, as well as being related to Queen Victoria matrilineally through Duke Alexander's wife, a Coburg princess, sister to the late duchess of Kent.

And how would the other German states (Prussia in particular), react to what they might see as England sticking it's nose into German affairs?
 
My understanding was the idea was largely floated by Victoria because she wanted to see a financial solution to her cousin's problems - largely because Mary Adelaide was a financial embarrassment. It is true she was rather popular with the public (largely due to her fondness for courting them) which irritated Victoria but the real issue was her inability to live off her considerable parliamentary allowance (which was £5,000 a year plus money from her mother) - Victoria herself disapproved of the idea of morganatic marriages and to her mind it solved the Tecks financial issues - I believe the British Government when it was mentioned were convinced it was a non-starter.
 
My understanding was the idea was largely floated by Victoria because she wanted to see a financial solution to her cousin's problems - largely because Mary Adelaide was a financial embarrassment. It is true she was rather popular with the public (largely due to her fondness for courting them) which irritated Victoria but the real issue was her inability to live off her considerable parliamentary allowance (which was £5,000 a year plus money from her mother) - Victoria herself disapproved of the idea of morganatic marriages and to her mind it solved the Tecks financial issues - I believe the British Government when it was mentioned were convinced it was a non-starter.

Would've been interesting to see a second avenue of British affairs in Germany. Though I wonder if the Princess of Wales would've still been so thrilled to have Mary of Teck as a daughter-in-law, since apparently what made Mary acceptable was that although she was German, she had grown up in England/was English, and Alix would have no truck with any German daughter-in-law (although I don't think she would've had as much say in the matter as her sister did in Russia), hence her refusing to countenance two of Victoria's granddaughters for her sons (I think they were Margarethe of Prussia and Alix/Irene of Hesse), and was willing to agree to Helene d'Orléans to avoid it.
 
Yes Alexandra's anti-German feeling was strong and had already caused problems in the family (she was particularly incensed by Princess Helena's marriage to Christian and managed to get a few of the Queen's children on her side). May had a pretty hard enough time of it without her father being inserted into the Wurttemburg succession - Alexandra wasn't over enamoured of the engagement to Eddie but the Queen was very fond of May despite her parents so it went ahead. It was the Tecks and the Prince of Wales who pushed the match with George after Eddie's death - which Alexandra struggled with (though the two came to a better relationship later). All the family liked Helene of Orleans - and the romance of it had garnered both Alexandra and Victoria's support for it - but it fizzled on Helene's father and the Pope's opposition to her conversion - which of course led to May's opportunity. Despite her background May of course was at the time of the match considered an "English" princess which in the public's mind cemented her as a popular figure. I don't know what difference it would have made to her chances if her father had been heir to Wurrtemburg - apart from her financial position might have been better and the family might not have thrown her at George after Eddie's death (given both she and George were reluctant - though it turned out a successful marriage).
 
Yes Alexandra's anti-German feeling was strong and had already caused problems in the family (she was particularly incensed by Princess Helena's marriage to Christian and managed to get a few of the Queen's children on her side). May had a pretty hard enough time of it without her father being inserted into the Wurttemburg succession - Alexandra wasn't over enamoured of the engagement to Eddie but the Queen was very fond of May despite her parents so it went ahead. It was the Tecks and the Prince of Wales who pushed the match with George after Eddie's death - which Alexandra struggled with (though the two came to a better relationship later). All the family liked Helene of Orleans - and the romance of it had garnered both Alexandra and Victoria's support for it - but it fizzled on Helene's father and the Pope's opposition to her conversion - which of course led to May's opportunity. Despite her background May of course was at the time of the match considered an "English" princess which in the public's mind cemented her as a popular figure. I don't know what difference it would have made to her chances if her father had been heir to Wurrtemburg - apart from her financial position might have been better and the family might not have thrown her at George after Eddie's death (given both she and George were reluctant - though it turned out a successful marriage).

Makes one wonder if she'd been a princess of Württemberg rather than a princess of Teck who else might have been interested in her? Which leads me to a follow-up question that I'm not entirely sure on, I know that a morganatic marriage means the kids can't inherit the titled parent's stuff, but are they considered equal matches for non-morganatically born royals. For instance, say Mary is Princess Marie of Württemberg instead of Mary of Teck, and she's engaged to Eddie, Duke of Clarence, but then he dies; the crown prince of some other Germanic state becomes interested in her and they get married, have kids. Is that marriage of Marie and the Germanic crown prince considered morganatic, or is she considered of equal birth? (NOTE: I didn't ask about Mary's parents because England/Britain tended not to have an issue with equally-born (same reason I made her marry some German prince, maybe Young Affie), Victoria, as said, commented on Bismarck's refusal of Sandro of Battenberg for her granddaughter because he wasn't royal, "geblüt as though they were buying a dog or a horse")
 
The children of a morganatic marriage are not generally considered to be equal - Victoria Mary of Teck as she was born - was merely Serene Highness - any marriage to her would be regarded as morganatic irrespective of her mother's royal birth. Even after her marriage to the Duke of York - when travelling abroad some would look down on her birth and consider her a poor choice for the future British King Emperor - in Britain it made no legal difference. If her father had been reinserted into the succession and Mary became HRH Princess Marie of Wurttemburg then of course her grandparents marriage is technically being ignored and she would be eligible to marry anyone and be regarded as equal (though people might sniff behind the scenes).
Another example is her cousin Princess Victoria Eugenie of Battenburg - she was the granddaughter of the British Queen Empress - but was through her father a member of the morganatic Battenburg's (descended from the Royal House of Hesse) and she was only Highness by her grandmother's decree (she would otherwise have been Serene Highness like the Teck children) - when Alfonso XIII of Spain fell for her his own mother was not exactly happy - apart from the religion - the main issue was the view of Queen Christina that the Battenburgs were not really royal (due to their morganatic origin). Ahead of the marriage Edward VII decreed that she should be styled Royal Highness in part to help overcome the issue of her father's background and simply enhancing her British Royal descent. It was also clear in the marriage contracts that she was being treated and regarded as a British Princess rather than a morganatic descendant of the house of Hesse.

In both cases despite the impediment of their ancestry their mother's royal birth helped overcome the stigma enabling a royal marriage but they were exceptions I believe.
 
The children of a morganatic marriage are not generally considered to be equal - Victoria Mary of Teck as she was born - was merely Serene Highness - any marriage to her would be regarded as morganatic irrespective of her mother's royal birth. Even after her marriage to the Duke of York - when travelling abroad some would look down on her birth and consider her a poor choice for the future British King Emperor - in Britain it made no legal difference. If her father had been reinserted into the succession and Mary became HRH Princess Marie of Wurttemburg then of course her grandparents marriage is technically being ignored and she would be eligible to marry anyone and be regarded as equal (though people might sniff behind the scenes).
Another example is her cousin Princess Victoria Eugenie of Battenburg - she was the granddaughter of the British Queen Empress - but was through her father a member of the morganatic Battenburg's (descended from the Royal House of Hesse) and she was only Highness by her grandmother's decree (she would otherwise have been Serene Highness like the Teck children) - when Alfonso XIII of Spain fell for her his own mother was not exactly happy - apart from the religion - the main issue was the view of Queen Christina that the Battenburgs were not really royal (due to their morganatic origin). Ahead of the marriage Edward VII decreed that she should be styled Royal Highness in part to help overcome the issue of her father's background and simply enhancing her British Royal descent. It was also clear in the marriage contracts that she was being treated and regarded as a British Princess rather than a morganatic descendant of the house of Hesse.

In both cases despite the impediment of their ancestry their mother's royal birth helped overcome the stigma enabling a royal marriage but they were exceptions I believe.

So Duke Franz's muttering of "like the tsarevich. It must be like with the tsarevich" when he heard of Eddie's death, according to the one biography of Queen Mary, was more a thing of he regarded it as a meal-ticket (so to speak) and that besides George, duke of York, since anywhere else where her pedigree wouldn't be an issue would either be relatively unimportant or force her to change her religion if they were.

Out of curiosity, this was something I picked up when perusing the House Laws, there was nothing said about it: Franz of Teck's father, Duke Alexander, had a much older half-brother, Prince Adam. Adam was born of their father's first marriage to a Princess (Czartoryska, I think) who wasn't a royal princess. Of course, Adam spent most of his life in Russia and he was quite the favourite of Tsar Nikolai I, but unsurprisingly, Adam never married, so it never came up, but AFAIK, the marriage wasn't regarded as morganatic when it was contracted, but I was wondering, now that you talk about people looking down their noses at said morganatic born children, would Adam have been regarded as dynastic? Especially since Adam was reasonably high in the succession - Friedrich I>Crown Prince Wilhelm>>Prince Paul>Duke Ludwig>Adam>Franz of Teck
 
Given that Louis' first marriage appears to have been accepted as equal - given his son was regarded as a Duke of Wurttemburg from birth - his wife's noble rank was high (given her father had been a candidate for the Polish Throne at one point) - then Adam and his heirs if he'd had any would be higher in the succession - though no idea why this marriage was seen as equal although it took place before the Wurttemburg's were raised to electoral and then royal rank - so maybe a Princess Czartoryski's was considered equal. Louis grandmother i think was a Thurn and Taxis - another princely house.
 
Given that Louis' first marriage appears to have been accepted as equal - given his son was regarded as a Duke of Wurttemburg from birth - his wife's noble rank was high (given her father had been a candidate for the Polish Throne at one point) - then Adam and his heirs if he'd had any would be higher in the succession - though no idea why this marriage was seen as equal although it took place before the Wurttemburg's were raised to electoral and then royal rank - so maybe a Princess Czartoryski's was considered equal. Louis grandmother i think was a Thurn and Taxis - another princely house.

Yeah but the Thurn und Taxis are specifically covered in the House Laws, mention is made that because the entire house of Württemberg descends from Karl Alexander and Auguste of Thurn-und-Taxis, a marriage into that family is regarded as equal. Which is why I was wondering about Ludwig's son from his first marriage. And IIRC, Duke Ludwig Eugen's marriage was likewise one that would've been regarded as morganatic after the passage of the new house laws in the 19c, but was regarded as equal at the time of contract.
 
Tecks: Viceroy of Ireland?
So, I cam across this interesting snippet of info. My question is simple, what-if it had happened?

Proposals to make the Tecks Viceroy and Vicereine of Ireland were vetoed because they couldn’t keep sufficient state on their limited income. They spent profligately, failed to pay tradesmen and squandered a £50,000 loan from Baroness Burdett-Coutts necessitating a move to the continent in 1883.

Say they managed to overspend - but nothing too ostentatious to keep an Irish court. How might this affect things? Mary was well liked "the people love a fat person" said Queen Victoria of her cousin, among the English. Would she, a devout Anglican, who had turned down matches with the emperor of Brasil (Pedro II), Vittorio Emanuele II of Sardinia and Napoléon III on religious grounds, be popular with the Catholic Irish?
 
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