WI The Swedish Empire had Keiv Rus?

Kievan Rus was long dead by the time the Swedes became a power of any note. The Vasa dynasty is probably the best (or last, really) chance to unify Sweden with Russia, but they found no shortage of enemies in Russia. That period of time was full of utter bizarreness, like the False Dmitrys, of which there were 12 of them, and apparently only 3 of them got anywhere, or the Bolotnikov Rebellion which backed a person who didn't even exist for the throne of Russia.

Personally, I think any Russia under the Swedish crown would develop its own identity and end up not being Swedish, even if Sweden would grab Ingria, Estonia, Livonia, and Karelia which would be properly Swedish (Scandinavian, really) compared to the people spreading across Siberia.
 
Now Keiv Rus was Ruled by a swede for a while BUT What if sweden ruled/owned it? Would Sweden Become as big as Russia!?

Are you talking about Rurik, who could have been from the geographic area of "Sweden" or Władysław IV Vasa? Basically, Rurik and his descendants assimilated into the Slavic people of Rus and brought their own traditions. With Wladyslaw Vasa by that time, the Kievan Rus was long gone and for the most part was only Rus state among many. Regardless, you can't really make Sweden as big as Russia, by the sheer virtue of demographics and size.
 
I'm talking about the Rurikid y chromosome haplotype that is clearly of Finno-Ugric origin. Although apparently not Estonian. I don't know if I misremembered, or if the earliest announcements (that I'm remembering) didn't have enough data points for comparison.
 
Kievan Rus was long dead by the time the Swedes became a power of any note.

Swedish princes fought in the kievan rus. The idea seems to be a Swedish king seizing the kievan throne.

That's not that outlandish, the early Scandinavian age was full of Danish kings becoming Kings of England and Swedish kings becoming King of Norway.

The idea is a Swedish Canute with a Baltic sea empire, is that any weirder than the otl Danish Canute's north sea empire?
 
I'm talking about the Rurikid y chromosome haplotype that is clearly of Finno-Ugric origin. Although apparently not Estonian. I don't know if I misremembered, or if the earliest announcements (that I'm remembering) didn't have enough data points for comparison.
IIRC, the haplotype is not found very often in Scandinavia and the closest to this haplotype can be found on the coasts of Finland.
 
I'm talking about the Rurikid y chromosome haplotype that is clearly of Finno-Ugric origin. Although apparently not Estonian. I don't know if I misremembered, or if the earliest announcements (that I'm remembering) didn't have enough data points for comparison.

IIRC, the haplotype is not found very often in Scandinavia and the closest to this haplotype can be found on the coasts of Finland.

What the study has apparently found is that while Rurik himself has a Finno-Ugric haplotype, he came from an area of Sweden as well not to far from modern-day Stockholm, with DNA from that area to prove it which fits with the Normanist Theory about Rurik.

Swedish princes fought in the kievan rus. The idea seems to be a Swedish king seizing the kievan throne.

That's not that outlandish, the early Scandinavian age was full of Danish kings becoming Kings of England and Swedish kings becoming King of Norway.

The idea is a Swedish Canute with a Baltic sea empire, is that any weirder than the otl Danish Canute's north sea empire?

Yes, it's weird because I can hardly follow this that it makes sense, I don't think Swedish Princes fought in the Kievan Rus. To the best of my knowledge no, the only Princes who fought in the Kievan Rus to my where the Russian Grand princes against themselves. the Kievan Rus was basically a state or confederation of them by the tail end of the Viking Age.

As for Sweden doing any particular didn't Sweden go through actually becoming a Kingdom, converting to Christianity, and several succession disputes that would make conquering the Kievan Rus not exactly up there on the things to do the list? Besides conquering the Kievan Rus would take fighting and subjugating every last prince in a very large area.
 

SRBO

Banned
Russians ARE genetically very Uralic

The purest Slavs (and therefore Indo-Europeans) come from the border areas of Poland, Ukraine and Belarus
 
Yes, it's weird because I can hardly follow this that it makes sense, I don't think Swedish Princes fought in the Kievan Rus. To the best of my knowledge no, the only Princes who fought in the Kievan Rus to my where the Russian Grand princes against themselves. the Kievan Rus was basically a state or confederation of them by the tail end of the Viking Age.

Yaroslav the wise asked for, and got, troops from his brother in law, Anund Jacob of Sweden, to fight against Mstislav of Chernigov in 1024.
 
Okay, I still don't see that expanding into somehow Sweden conquers the whole Kievan Rus, and it's a part of Sweden.

It indicates an area of interest. They were intermarrisges between swedish and kievan royals, they were swedish troops fighting in kiev as allies.

Like you said yourself in otl, sweden had other stuff going on. It had wars with norway and denmark, it had wars of succession, it had wars of unification.

If there was an atl where sweden didn't have those problems, or solved them earlier, and you get a swedish canute (a particuarly ambitious and talented king) why not go into the kiev. It's not like china conquering kenya, it's a reasonably intuitive route of expansion.
 
Top