WI The Reconquista Continued

Caligo

Banned
What if in 1492 Castile didn't stop at the Mediterranean Sea. The events that caused Columbus to discover the Americas would already be set in motion as of 1492. However, soon there after Spain launch military invasions of the Barbary Coast. This emphasis on reconquering North Africa for Christiandom may deter Spanish conquistadors from traveling all the way across the Atlantic when they can fight for God & honor much closer to home in North Africa. As a result the Aztec Empire may not fall in the 1520s. Spain would still claim lands in the Americas but have much less of an influence on Latin America culturally & administratively in this timeline. The Aztec & Incan Empires may enter into the Spanish Empire as client states in this timeline. The abundant resources of the Americas would be seen as necessary to further Spain's primary agenda, the Holy War in North Africa. Many of the Spanish settlers who traveled to the New World would rather claim tracts of land in Barbary. The Hafsid dynasty (Tunisia) seeing the writing on the wall would agree to become a client state of the Ottoman Empire rather than fall to the Christians. Roughly the coastal areas of our modern day Morocco & Algeria would be under Castilian Control and Tunisia, Libya & Egypt under that of the Ottoman Empire. This division of North Africa would serve to be a stable power dynamic. This region would be referred to as El Maghreb by the Spanish. The Arabo-Berbers & Berbers would be forcibly converted to Roman Catholicism & gradually assimilated into Spanish culture.

Maghreb.png


[Distribution of Indo-European Languages Today]

The Maghreb would mostly be "Westernized" before the 17th century. This would give Maghrebi Spanish time to diverge from that of the northern Peninsula. Maghrebi Spanish would develop into its own language differentiable from Spanish yet still semi-intelligible especially the more Western region of the Maghreb. It's almost impossible to predict fully how this timeline will impact the New World but I would predict that Spain's colonies remain part of the Empire much later perhaps even until WWII. This being because the Independence movements of Latin America were largely founded & led by Creoles (Europeans born in the New World). Having such a smaller stock of Spanish settlers would probably result in a lack of the institutions necessary for Latin American Colonies to wage a successful war for Independence & sustain those newly founded nations. The Maghreb as well would probably remain a subject of Spain until WWII. In this timeline the Republican forces during the Spanish Civil War flee to Algiers once mainland Spain is lost to Franco. The Republican forces declare the Republic of the Maghreb. One interesting part of this timeline would be how the Maghreb is viewed by us. The Meghreb is seen as a Western Country. The population being a mix of Iberians & Berbers would be viewed as "white" having a similar complexion & appearance to Greeks or Turks.

Maghreb Flag.png


[Flag of the Republic of The Maghreb]
 
Avoid a union with the Habsburgs and you have all the religious zeal Spain built up over the ages sent into the Maghreb instead of into Flanders.
 
What if in 1492 Castile didn't stop at the Mediterranean Sea. The events that caused Columbus to discover the Americas would already be set in motion as of 1492. However, soon there after Spain launch military invasions of the Barbary Coast. This emphasis on reconquering North Africa for Christiandom may deter Spanish conquistadors from traveling all the way across the Atlantic when they can fight for God & honor much closer to home in North Africa. As a result the Aztec Empire may not fall in the 1520s. Spain would still claim lands in the Americas but have much less of an influence on Latin America culturally & administratively in this timeline. The Aztec & Incan Empires may enter into the Spanish Empire as client states in this timeline. The abundant resources of the Americas would be seen as necessary to further Spain's primary agenda, the Holy War in North Africa. Many of the Spanish settlers who traveled to the New World would rather claim tracts of land in Barbary. The Hafsid dynasty (Tunisia) seeing the writing on the wall would agree to become a client state of the Ottoman Empire rather than fall to the Christians. Roughly the coastal areas of our modern day Morocco & Algeria would be under Castilian Control and Tunisia, Libya & Egypt under that of the Ottoman Empire. This division of North Africa would serve to be a stable power dynamic. This region would be referred to as El Maghreb by the Spanish. The Arabo-Berbers & Berbers would be forcibly converted to Roman Catholicism & gradually assimilated into Spanish culture.

View attachment 445698

[Distribution of Indo-European Languages Today]

The Maghreb would mostly be "Westernized" before the 17th century. This would give Maghrebi Spanish time to diverge from that of the northern Peninsula. Maghrebi Spanish would develop into its own language differentiable from Spanish yet still semi-intelligible especially the more Western region of the Maghreb. It's almost impossible to predict fully how this timeline will impact the New World but I would predict that Spain's colonies remain part of the Empire much later perhaps even until WWII. This being because the Independence movements of Latin America were largely founded & led by Creoles (Europeans born in the New World). Having such a smaller stock of Spanish settlers would probably result in a lack of the institutions necessary for Latin American Colonies to wage a successful war for Independence & sustain those newly founded nations. The Maghreb as well would probably remain a subject of Spain until WWII. In this timeline the Republican forces during the Spanish Civil War flee to Algiers once mainland Spain is lost to Franco. The Republican forces declare the Republic of the Maghreb. One interesting part of this timeline would be how the Maghreb is viewed by us. The Meghreb is seen as a Western Country. The population being a mix of Iberians & Berbers would be viewed as "white" having a similar complexion & appearance to Greeks or Turks.

View attachment 445697

[Flag of the Republic of The Maghreb]

But Castille did this OTL and they did not move further than some coastal cities.
 
Again, that's because the Habsburgs put far more attention to maintaining their stranglehold on the HRE than on finishing the Reconquista.

The Reconquista was aimed mostly at retaking territory formerly held by the visigothic kingdom, North Africa was not claimed by the visigoths so conquering North Africa would not be part of the Reconquista
 
The Reconquista was aimed mostly at retaking territory formerly held by the visigothic kingdom, North Africa was not claimed by the visigoths so conquering North Africa would not be part of the Reconquista

This pretty much, as far as the title is concerned, its a misnomer, because the Reconquista was fully completed in 1492 when Granada fell and the Iberian Peninsula became fully under a Christian dominion again.

And while I agree part of why the focus on North Africa wasn't as great because of the Habsburg's focus on maintaining the HRE, I feel nobody brought up the fact that even that wasn't the primary focus of their religious zeal. The primary focus was actually turned to colonization of the Americas. That was where most of the reconquistadors ended up post-Granada War.

Plus there really wasn't a need to focus down North Africa outside of a few coastal cities (some of which Spanish control really didn't last long, thanks Barbarossa Bros. and the Ottomans) and that was partly to stymie the Barbary Corsairs threatening maritime trade in the Mediterranean. And even then, it wasn't a major issue since most of the money was coming in from the New World anyway.
 
Could Spain do both? That is explore and conquer the new world and then lead western civilisation against first northwesr Africa and then Ottomans.

This would replace England with Ottomans for the Spanish Hapsburgs.
 

Lusitania

Donor
The reconquista was continued by the Portuguese who in 1415 conquered Ceuta and for next 150 years or so conquered over dozen coastal cities including Tangier and others along the coast. This stopped in 1578 when Portuguese king Sebastian 1 along with majority of Portuguese nobles and army were defeated and killed in battle with Morocco. Which lead to the ill fateful Iberian union.

Now also in middle of the 15th century a dispute between Castile and Portugal arose regarding the Canary islands. An agreement was negotiated and Castile got Canary Islands in return Portugal has dominion over North Africa.

So for Spain to continue with conquests in North Africa you need first them to avoid Habsburg entanglement as indicated by other posters then an agreement with Portugal that Spain gets Algiers and all lands east.
 
Again, that's because the Habsburgs put far more attention to maintaining their stranglehold on the HRE than on finishing the Reconquista.

That is easily said. It also ignores the fact that North Africa has largely hostile Islamic Arab/Berber population who will not sit down an resist as hell. The reconquista also needs Christians to populate the newly aquired lands against hostile Muslims, which pretty much means that its cut a decent share from sending colonists to the Americas which has different consequences. It would take a huge time and rescources to secure North Africa. Not something that can be achieved in half a century, if even possible to achieve at all.
 
Could Spain do both? That is explore and conquer the new world and then lead western civilisation against first northwesr Africa and then Ottomans.

This would replace England with Ottomans for the Spanish Hapsburgs.

Spain tried to fight on multiple fronts before Elizabeth took over with not so good results. The Ottomans were not checked, the Spanish lost more in North Africa than gained. All this before the Dutch rebellion and conflict with England started.

Odds are, a continuing conflict with Spain keeps the Ottoman Navy experienced and not solve much.
 
This is a small thing, but in a scenario where the Spanish Empire conquers and assimilates much of North Africa, the butterfly effect will certainly prevent the linguistic map of western Eurasia from looking exactly the same otherwise.
 
This is a small thing, but in a scenario where the Spanish Empire conquers and assimilates much of North Africa, the butterfly effect will certainly prevent the linguistic map of western Eurasia from looking exactly the same otherwise.

In theory, that is true. But there is one obstacle:

"Conquers and assimilates much of North Africa"...

North Africans aren't really waiting with open arms to get baptised and learn Spanish as their first language. In reality, this won't work or would require something really... asb'ish.
 
In theory, that is true. But there is one obstacle:

"Conquers and assimilates much of North Africa"...

North Africans aren't really waiting with open arms to get baptised and learn Spanish as their first language. In reality, this won't work or would require something really... asb'ish.

I am not passing judgement on how likely or unlikely this scenario is, just that even if one were to accept the premise on its own terms, that map seems implausible. It would be likely proposing a scenario where the Battle of Adrianople, or the Battle of Hastings, or the Battle of Manzikert went the other way... but the linguistic situation in that scenario’s 2019 was almost exactly the same as our timeline.

Butterflies, my dudes.
 
In theory, that is true. But there is one obstacle:

"Conquers and assimilates much of North Africa"...

North Africans aren't really waiting with open arms to get baptised and learn Spanish as their first language. In reality, this won't work or would require something really... asb'ish.

The visigoths also weren't waiting with open arms to be ruled by Muslims and speaking Arab when the Ummayads crossed the straits, and yet we all know how that eventually played out. Circumstances change depending on who is top dog, and we may very well see a relatively stable morrocco/ Algeria be shattered into smaller entities that would be more than willing to cooperate with a dominant Spain in the area. Eventually, Arab/Berber elites and merchants under Spanish rule may see benefits in converting to Christianity -- or to avoid persecution, that's an important factor too -- , as major cities become increasingly dominated by spaniards. Being somewhat isolated from other Muslim dominions, the urban populace might see no way other than to gradually learn the language of their rulers, while their own Arab dialects incorporate more and more elements from Castillian.

Over the course of centuries, people from all of Spain would start to settle in North Africa, changing not only the urban landscape but, to an extent, rural areas as well, giving Spain more leverage to control these territories. Conversion rates could also increase, as intermarrying becomes commonplace, and by consequence so would the usage of Castillian.

I've just described very generally the process that happened in Iberia during the period of Muslim rule, -- this time in North Africa, of course -- before being gradually, but proactively undone by the christian kingdoms in the north. It is not a stretch to think that a similar panorama could develop in a Spanish dominated Morrocco/ Algeria.

With that said, to fully realize what OP is suggesting, such a dominion would have to stretch until the industrial age, as I believe better communication, integration, and overall cultural dominance are necessary to fully "westernize" the area. None of that is possibel without the societal and technological intricacies of an industrialized Metropole.
 
The visigoths also weren't waiting with open arms to be ruled by Muslims and speaking Arab when the Ummayads crossed the straits, and yet we all know how that eventually played out. Circumstances change depending on who is top dog, and we may very well see a relatively stable morrocco/ Algeria be shattered into smaller entities that would be more than willing to cooperate with a dominant Spain in the area. Eventually, Arab/Berber elites and merchants under Spanish rule may see benefits in converting to Christianity -- or to avoid persecution, that's an important factor too -- , as major cities become increasingly dominated by spaniards. Being somewhat isolated from other Muslim dominions, the urban populace might see no way other than to gradually learn the language of their rulers, while their own Arab dialects incorporate more and more elements from Castillian.

Over the course of centuries, people from all of Spain would start to settle in North Africa, changing not only the urban landscape but, to an extent, rural areas as well, giving Spain more leverage to control these territories. Conversion rates could also increase, as intermarrying becomes commonplace, and by consequence so would the usage of Castillian.

I've just described very generally the process that happened in Iberia during the period of Muslim rule, -- this time in North Africa, of course -- before being gradually, but proactively undone by the christian kingdoms in the north. It is not a stretch to think that a similar panorama could develop in a Spanish dominated Morrocco/ Algeria.

With that said, to fully realize what OP is suggesting, such a dominion would have to stretch until the industrial age, as I believe better communication, integration, and overall cultural dominance are necessary to fully "westernize" the area. None of that is possibel without the societal and technological intricacies of an industrialized Metropole.

Is it possible that a successfully Reconquista of much of North Africa (sans Egypt and Libya) from Iberia would later experience its own analogue of the Sicilian Mafia, given both the allegedly Arabic roots and the fact Sicily itself was once ruled by an Islamic emirate?
 
Is it possible that a successfully Reconquista of much of North Africa (sans Egypt and Libya) from Iberia would later experience its own analogue of the Sicilian Mafia, given both the allegedly Arabic roots and the fact Sicily itself was once ruled by an Islamic emirate?

There is hardly any correlation between the development of the Sicilian mafia and the island having been dominated by Muslims almost 900 years ago. The reasons that promoted the rise of such an organization are much more recent.
 
In theory, that is true. But there is one obstacle:

"Conquers and assimilates much of North Africa"...

North Africans aren't really waiting with open arms to get baptised and learn Spanish as their first language. In reality, this won't work or would require something really... asb'ish.

The population differential in this period and the following centuries is huge though. If Italians went south and if France had its demographic transition slightly later (in line with everyone else) the Romance speakers can easily outnumber the Arab-Berber population 2 or 3 to 1.
 
The visigoths also weren't waiting with open arms to be ruled by Muslims and speaking Arab when the Ummayads crossed the straits, and yet we all know how that eventually played out. Circumstances change depending on who is top dog, and we may very well see a relatively stable morrocco/ Algeria be shattered into smaller entities that would be more than willing to cooperate with a dominant Spain in the area. Eventually, Arab/Berber elites and merchants under Spanish rule may see benefits in converting to Christianity -- or to avoid persecution, that's an important factor too -- , as major cities become increasingly dominated by spaniards. Being somewhat isolated from other Muslim dominions, the urban populace might see no way other than to gradually learn the language of their rulers, while their own Arab dialects incorporate more and more elements from Castillian.

Over the course of centuries, people from all of Spain would start to settle in North Africa, changing not only the urban landscape but, to an extent, rural areas as well, giving Spain more leverage to control these territories. Conversion rates could also increase, as intermarrying becomes commonplace, and by consequence so would the usage of Castillian.

I've just described very generally the process that happened in Iberia during the period of Muslim rule, -- this time in North Africa, of course -- before being gradually, but proactively undone by the christian kingdoms in the north. It is not a stretch to think that a similar panorama could develop in a Spanish dominated Morrocco/ Algeria.

With that said, to fully realize what OP is suggesting, such a dominion would have to stretch until the industrial age, as I believe better communication, integration, and overall cultural dominance are necessary to fully "westernize" the area. None of that is possibel without the societal and technological intricacies of an industrialized Metropole.

There is a difference. The Arabs were no religious lunatics believing their religion is the only way to salvation. That is why they managed to rule Iberia for 350 years (thd majority). The Spanish entered the region to drive the Muslims away. At least, this happened in Oran and Melilla. Considering that butterflies are not too big Spain still will force the Catholization of North Africa. And that is were ths problem stats.

P.S. the geography is not ideal either.
 
The population differential in this period and the following centuries is huge though. If Italians went south and if France had its demographic transition slightly later (in line with everyone else) the Romance speakers can easily outnumber the Arab-Berber population 2 or 3 to 1.

If. What resources does Spain have to get about 200k people to migrate to a region prone to warfare and hostile Berber Tribes? Especially if Spain still goes to the Americas which is necessary to fund such campaigns. Your scenario would work if Spain already has the region. And that is the problem. It isn't as easy as to conquer it and movs to ths next region.

This would require insane amount of luck (balkanised Muslim World around the Mediterranean). If there is no Portugal, as a part of Spain (extra resources, no rivalry in the region), it is already a head start. Another requirement would be getting easy on other religions. I can't imagine Castillian Kings or any Iberian Cardinal going for this.
 
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