WI: The other Harold wins england

Part of the crisis of 1066 was prompted by the fact that the thegns of Northumbria considered Tostig Godwinson to be "a foreigner" because he was from Wessex. English partition (or as in-universe historians might say "the short-lived Wessex-Northumbrian Union of Æthelstan") is far from ASB.

Is a partition likely, though?

For example, if Harald secures only Northumbria, would he consider the whole venture to have been worthwhile?
 

Kaptin Kurk

Banned
Indeed, the early Norman kings of England used to go to Paris and make feudal obeisance in their capacity as Duke of Normandy to the King of France. As the French will never shut up about nowadays. :rolleyes:

I'm not convinced Harald Haadrada could have conquered England considering the Normans were coming. They might have ended up dividing it with Haadrada having the north and William the south (I remember one timeline posted on the frontpage of this site MANY MOONS AGO which did this). If you want Haadrada to win the whole thing, you could play with the weather (if this is allowed) so William lands first, Harold Godwinson beats him, and then Haadrada lands in the north and the whole thing plays out in reverse to OTL, with Godwinson's tired army falling in the north to Haadrada.

Obviously a conquest by Haadrada would be far less traumatic and dramatic to the country than the Norman Conquest, because England had been ruled by a Viking dynasty in living memory and indeed historians in TTL might view Edward the Confessor's reign as being an aberrent blip in England's history of close ties of government to Scandinavia.


When I talk about the independence of William, I am also talking about the practical independence versus the the ceremonial. If I'm am being to abstract, I'll make it plain:

It William has a harder time conquering England, but in the end succeeds. Might not the King of France retain more power over the Kings of England than they did historically, especially if william needs to ask the Capets a bit for help, or the Aquitaine Duke...either way, England might be more 'French' in the future.

I could see the French Kings sending William re-enforcments, but also having more say in who becomes the new rulers of the conquered territories.
 
William's invasion was sanctioned by the Pope
Some modern historians consider this to be Norman propaganda rather than historical fact. Apart from anything else, apparently there's a distinct lack of evidence for that support in the papal archives... and the fact that the Church subsequently required William to build an abbey on the site of the battle wherein prayers could be said for all of the conflict's dead, as a penance for the bloodshed, does rather suggest a lack of prior approval in itself.
 
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Thande

Donor
Is a partition likely, though?

For example, if Harald secures only Northumbria, would he consider the whole venture to have been worthwhile?

Neither of them is likely to be happy about settling for half the country, but if they exhaust each other and either fails to win a decisive victory, it seems like the most obvious outcome given that the political division was in living memory and still very much a fact on the ground as far as cultural differences went. Of course that doesn't mean that either of them (more probably William) won't have another go a few years down the road once they've brought more troops over and built a power base.
 
If we monkey around with the weather, allowing William to be defeated first. The likely outcome is a temporary Hardrada dynasty rule due to lack of fortification building which is one of the reasons why the Normans endured.
 
If we monkey around with the weather, allowing William to be defeated first. The likely outcome is a temporary Hardrada dynasty rule due to lack of fortification building which is one of the reasons why the Normans endured.

It really depends on how he rules, there are a lot of ways where he could rule and the anglo-saxons could come to accept him more (viking rule wasnt exactly a foreign concept), that and a lot of the ire WIlliam received was for his complete destruction of Saxon customs like the Witan and such, if Harold avoids that then his dynasty could end up sticking around for a while.

PS. His last name wasnt Hadrada, Hadrada was an epithet after his name meaning Hard Ruler.
 
It really depends on how he rules, there are a lot of ways where he could rule and the anglo-saxons could come to accept him more (viking rule wasnt exactly a foreign concept), that and a lot of the ire WIlliam received was for his complete destruction of Saxon customs like the Witan and such, if Harold avoids that then his dynasty could end up sticking around for a while.

PS. His last name wasnt Hadrada, Hadrada was an epithet after his name meaning Hard Ruler.
but Hardrada sounds so much cooler than Sigurdsson :D
 
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