WI the new world discovered later?

yourworstnightmare

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I am interesting how World History would be changed and what would be the fate of the American continent if Columbus expedition had failed and the Europeans did not find America until the early 1600s.
 
I am interesting how World History would be changed and what would be the fate of the American continent if Columbus expedition had failed and the Europeans did not find America until the early 1600s.

Probabaly about the same. If the native americans hadn`t caught the diseases of columbus and his expedition then they would have been doomed to the same fate again. The europeans would have turned up with better guns and better abilities to colonize. The native americans would have lost 90% of their population to diseases they weren`t prepared for and would have been more easily displaced from their land by the even more advanced european weapondry.

The only real difference might have been some changes in the layout of countries in the american continent but on the whole these would have probabaly been superficial. The outcome would have been the same, native americans dead or oppressed european colonists sweeping across the continent to acieve mainfest destiny.

Now...

if columbus` expedition had passed on european diseases to the american continent before they dies then things could have changed a lot. A large portion of native americans could still have died (as long as the dieases could ahve spread between the tribes quickly enough) but without the eurpeans to steal the land from the diminshed population the native american population might have recovered. The europeans settlers arriving later would then have had a far more difficult time of making headway in the states. There would have been too mnay native maericans to simply be driven off the land and so the europeans would have had to live side by side with the natiive europeans or else risk a massive war with the abundant native maericna tribes.
 
I always think that an interesting thought is if when the Europeans get to America they all die from Native disease their not used to.
 
I always think that an interesting thought is if when the Europeans get to America they all die from Native disease their not used to.
Read Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs and Steel"
Most epidemic diseases (especially in Eurasia) are zoonoses (originally from animals). If you don't live in regular contact with animals, their diseases aren't going to pass to humans.
 

ninebucks

Banned
Probabaly about the same.

About the same? Not at all. The discovery of the Americas was a completely world-shattering event that.

Economically, the rapid availablity of American gold allowed the Spanish Empire to burn quickly, but ultimately destroyed it. The value of gold in Eurasia collapsed as its supposed scarcity came into question due to the possible existence of an el Dorado across the Atlantic; the global economic model collapsed and an entirely new set of powers emerged from its ashes. If Columbus had failed, Spain wouldn't have gone from the world power to a European backwater in a few generations, rather, they'd have adapted more slowly to a gradually changing model and the transfer of economic-political power from Southern to Northern Europe would have been slowed down, or perhaps even avoided.

A change of a few decades either way with the discovery of America would really give enough time for decaying states to collapse or recover, or for rising states to ascend or reverse.
 
The Inca probably would of eventually collapsed due to the fact that the Inka would marry his sister. The Aztec would probably continue until they overreached and the empire split which seemed to be quite likely. One effect that would come from an Inca and Aztec collapse would be make the conquest a little bit harder due to the fact that there would be no one central figure that could be seized.
 
The Inca probably would of eventually collapsed due to the fact that the Inka would marry his sister. The Aztec would probably continue until they overreached and the empire split which seemed to be quite likely. One effect that would come from an Inca and Aztec collapse would be make the conquest a little bit harder due to the fact that there would be no one central figure that could be seized.

I actually think that the Aztecs would be more likely to collapse before the Incas ITTL. The Aztec empire was fragile and could not last as long as the (relatively) more stable Inca empire could.

One effect that is often brought up: without the Americas to divert Reconquista energy / young soldiers to, the Spanish would probably conquer Morocco and maybe Algeria. Also, they probably would not do as well should the Dutch Revolt happen AIOTL, because they will not have the massive amount of gold from the New World to expend on fighting the Dutch.
 

yourworstnightmare

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Some interesting ideas here. Which nation would find the Americas in the 1600s? And how significant would European colonization be??
 
Probabaly about the same. If the native americans hadn`t caught the diseases of columbus and his expedition then they would have been doomed to the same fate again. The europeans would have turned up with better guns and better abilities to colonize. The native americans would have lost 90% of their population to diseases they weren`t prepared for and would have been more easily displaced from their land by the even more advanced european weapondry.

The only real difference might have been some changes in the layout of countries in the american continent but on the whole these would have probabaly been superficial. The outcome would have been the same, native americans dead or oppressed european colonists sweeping across the continent to acieve mainfest destiny.

Ok, if Columbus failed, the idea was already there. Portugal was not that far from accepting the shipment and from Cape Verde. England was nor that far and we always get Caboto. Spain appears to delay the issue because it is occupied with Granada so I don´t think that you can delay de discovered more than a few years, perhaps decades but let's suppose: If the discovery is delayed, the African route would charge more importance. Suppose that England or France succeeds in taking the Azores with the objective of achieving a scale on the route to Africa. The Azores would be a vital strategic point for British or French or whatever it was to take control of the Caribbean rather than Spain. If the English arrives in Mexico, what would hapen to the Aztecs? What could England had done in Peru. Even Portugal, I do not see Portugal taking control of the Aztec or Inca empire in the form that made him Spain, I don´t see those different countries acting in the same way with the aztecs incas or mayas. I don´t see spanish annihilating the native Americans...
 
The Inca probably would of eventually collapsed due to the fact that the Inka would marry his sister.

A lot of people were able to get away with an arrangement like that for a long time. I think in general the Inca socio-political structure was quite stable, much more so than the Aztecs. An extra century would have allowed the assimilationist policies of the Inca to further blur the distinctions between the Andean peoples under their rule and create a stronger ethno-national identity.

In general, though, I don't think the failure of Columbus in and of itself would keep the Americas from being discovered until the 1600's. Another PoD is needed, but its doable. I would like to see some ideas on how the Tiwantasuyu and Triple Alliance would have fared given another century before encountering guns, germs and steel.
 
I am interesting how World History would be changed and what would be the fate of the American continent if Columbus expedition had failed and the Europeans did not find America until the early 1600s.

A lot of things.

a) As already mentioned, Spain wouldn't get gigantic amounts of gold and silver. Spain would be poorer, but maybe in better economic health in the long run. But spanish gold financed a lot of the struggle against the Ottoman empires expansion during this period.

b) The spanish gold and silver wouldn't reach others. The british economy, partly based on robbing spanish gold convoys, would lag behind. Difficult to predict the effect.

c) More colonization of Africa, India and Asia. The conquistadores would leave Spain, but go south and east instead of west.
 
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