WI The Nazis weren't racist?

Wolfpaw

Banned
The Nazis hated jews
Germany hated the jews, i think.. I doubt a political party not hating them makes the country not hate them.
and the jews hated the Germans, I would bet.
Apart from your first line, the rest of this post is immensely wrong.

Germany was probably the most philo-Semitic nation in Europe prior to World War I, and even the Germany of the '20s wasn't all that anti-Semitic.

Jews didn't hate Germany either; they were probably the most assimilated Jewish community in the world and were just as patriotic as your average German. Hell, most German Jews saw themselves as just that: Germans who happened to be Jews, not the other way around.

You need to do some more research before posting gross generalizations and outright wrong things like this, especially if they are so colored with ex post facto guesswork.
 
There were leftward Nazis early in the movement in our timeline, but they too were antisemites if I recall correctly.

That's probably all too true, Wendell.

@Wolfpaw: It's because of the Nazis Germany has gotten such a bad rep..........because of them, people often forget the real history of Jewish/non-Jewish relations in Germany before the '30s.
 
Exactly--racism was such a cornerstone of Nazi doctrine that without it they would be generic anti-communist right wingers, and probably would merge with the monarchist movement. Basically a more competent version of Fascist Italy.
 
The Nazis hated jews
Germany hated the jews, i think.. I doubt a political party not hating them makes the country not hate them.
and the jews hated the Germans, I would bet.


from what I know (reading, etc), a lot of German Jews were genuinely shocked and surprised to find "their" country being ripped out from under them.

according to this article and others, about 100,000 Jews served in the German army in WW1.

Jewish chemist Fritz Haber developed poison gas for the German army to use!

I got more info here.
 
from what I know (reading, etc), a lot of German Jews were genuinely shocked and surprised to find "their" country being ripped out from under them.

according to this article and others, about 100,000 Jews served in the German army in WW1.

Jewish chemist Fritz Haber developed poison gas for the German army to use!

I got more info here.

True, true. The Germany of the Teens and '20s was okay for Jews for the most part. It wasn't until the '30s that anti-Semitism started to make a real major comeback, but we all know that lead to.........:(

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

-George Santayana.
 
What if Hitler, through some personal experience or another, chose to A. Abandon his anti-semitism and his racial ideology (or never formulate it in the first place) or B. Never make it part of the Nazis' public platform?

The Nazis remain extremely nationalistic and pro-expansion, but Jews, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. are considered Germans and are not discriminated against.

Homosexuals and JWs were not persecuted on racial grounds.
The problem with the JWs was, that they refused any commitment to the state and especially military service.

Homosexuality was illegal almost everywhere back then and the nazis considered it dangerous anti-social behavoir.


The biggest diverence (besides no holocaust) would be a different attitude towards the eastern peoples.
Germany could still try to take a lot of territory and destroy the Soviet Union but instead of condemming them to open slavery it could set up a polish puppet regime and later Ukrainian ect. puppet states.
 
from what I know (reading, etc), a lot of German Jews were genuinely shocked and surprised to find "their" country being ripped out from under them.

according to this article and others, about 100,000 Jews served in the German army in WW1.

Jewish chemist Fritz Haber developed poison gas for the German army to use!

I got more info here.

Fritz Haber converted to Catholic in his early and somehow tried his best to remove all of his Jewish ancestry, just I think the opposite of Albert Einstein. Fritz Haber invention before the war was also very important, rather more practical than Einstein relativity, with his Haber Cycle for fertilization production.

Looking at the viewpoint of German scientists, I think there still will be plenty of them that could develop A-Bomb other than Albert Einstein. Einstein basically only provided the general theoretical concept of atomic bomb but not the actual concept on how one could build it from scratch. It took a lot more scientists and engineers than Einstein in Manhattan Project. But of course Germany chance to build one would be significantly higher if Einstein would join in some German "Manhattan Project" because other Jewish scientists would probably follow suit also and FDR would not know the early possibility of it if Einstein would not send the letter of notification.

One of the most important scientist other than Einstein is Max Born, the man left Germany at 1933 once Hitler took power because he was regarded to have a Jewish Ancestry. One of his Phd students at Gottingen was Oppenheimer. He was also assisted by Enrico Fermi, Teller and Wigner. There was also Otto Hahn, the first man who split atom. All of them were important figures in atomic bomb development and later worked in the Manhattan Project.

If nearly all the world's finest atomic physicist were still in Germany, I think Germany got a pretty big chance in developing the A-Bomb before anyone else does.

The question is, what motivation would they have? All of them did not personally like to research nuclear weapons technology. Could they be convinced to create one to safeguard the world from the Communism?
 
I recall a story from an anthology of "Axis powers win WWII" stories, where, in a nutshell, Hitler joins the Navy and becomes as anti-British as OTL Hitler was anti-Semitic. This Hitler stokes the fire of hatred against the British and as a bonus, is a lot more aware of the importance of naval power.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
If nearly all the world's finest atomic physicist were still in Germany, I think Germany got a pretty big chance in developing the A-Bomb before anyone else does.

The question is, what motivation would they have? All of them did not personally like to research nuclear weapons technology. Could they be convinced to create one to safeguard the world from the Communism?
We'll still likely see a brain-drain from Germany. A lot of intellectuals and scientists left Germany due to the repressive nature of the regime in general, and I doubt that it will be much different without the Nazis. Even if the ancestry question is left out, a good number of the refugees had anti-fascist leanings and would probably flee after things got nasty enough.

The atom bomb may come to naught. Those who came up with the idea would probably keep their mouths shut rather than let it fall into the hands of the fascists.
 
america and western europe would be more open to eugenics. one of the large reasons eugenics lost favor was because of seeing what it could do, i.e. the holocaust.
 
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