WI: The Nazis' anti-Slavism is directed somewhere else

Essentially 'Blood and Soil' faction and the fact that Hitler was from A-H where he fell under influence of a few anti-slav racist who blamed the demise and paralysis of the Empire on the Slav component needs to be removed.

So…Notzi's lead by Notler?
 
But was the anti-Slavism that deeply rooted? I can't think of many instances of history pre-Nazis where there was anything that bad.

Anti-Slav feeling in Germany was VERY deeply-rooted. Since the partition of Poland, Poles had been a big source of cheap labour which competed with the German working classes over job opportunities. In the Ruhr, I think at one point they actually formed a majority of industrial workers. They were definitely a big group there. The lebensraum doctrine came from a long history of seeing underdeveloped land next door and blaming it's inhabitants (I.e. Slavs) for the lack of development.

In reality, the Slavic parts of Europe suffered from chronic underdevelopment due to foreign rule. Austrians, Hungarians and Turks did little to nothing to improve the lot of Slavs living under them. The only possible exception of the Czech lands, and that's only because they were so industrially-viable. They often didn't intervene in the occasional skirmish between Slavic villagers and Roma bands, and I doubt they even investigated most case involving Slavs. It's kinda sad really, a lot of Slavs actually look up to the Germans, but they have always kinda sneered down their noses at us.
 
Anti-Slav feeling in Germany was VERY deeply-rooted. Since the partition of Poland, Poles had been a big source of cheap labour which competed with the German working classes over job opportunities. In the Ruhr, I think at one point they actually formed a majority of industrial workers. They were definitely a big group there. The lebensraum doctrine came from a long history of seeing underdeveloped land next door and blaming it's inhabitants (I.e. Slavs) for the lack of development.

In reality, the Slavic parts of Europe suffered from chronic underdevelopment due to foreign rule. Austrians, Hungarians and Turks did little to nothing to improve the lot of Slavs living under them. The only possible exception of the Czech lands, and that's only because they were so industrially-viable. They often didn't intervene in the occasional skirmish between Slavic villagers and Roma bands, and I doubt they even investigated most case involving Slavs. It's kinda sad really, a lot of Slavs actually look up to the Germans, but they have always kinda sneered down their noses at us.

Do you have a source?
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_German_settlement_in_Central_and_Eastern_Europe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Poles_by_Germany

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drang_nach_Osten

Of course these are wikipedia articles, but they have their own references in them.

This book is a little dated, but mentions some of what I was saying regarding German colonialism (more the function, rather than the ideology behind it) and Ottoman administration of the Balkans: https://books.google.co.nz/books?id...German colonisation of Eastern Europe&f=false

This one is more recent, from 2012, regarding Poland: https://books.google.co.nz/books?id...German colonisation of Eastern Europe&f=false

From 2005, concerned with Czechoslovakia: https://books.google.co.nz/books?id...German colonisation of Eastern Europe&f=false

From 1999, regarding a German "frontier" mentality in the East: https://books.google.co.nz/books?id...German colonisation of Eastern Europe&f=false

From 2008, regarding the East in general: https://books.google.co.nz/books?id...German colonisation of Eastern Europe&f=false
 

nastle

Banned
Anti-Slav feeling in Germany was VERY deeply-rooted. Since the partition of Poland, Poles had been a big source of cheap labour which competed with the German working classes over job opportunities. In the Ruhr, I think at one point they actually formed a majority of industrial workers. They were definitely a big group there. The lebensraum doctrine came from a long history of seeing underdeveloped land next door and blaming it's inhabitants (I.e. Slavs) for the lack of development.

In reality, the Slavic parts of Europe suffered from chronic underdevelopment due to foreign rule. Austrians, Hungarians and Turks did little to nothing to improve the lot of Slavs living under them. The only possible exception of the Czech lands, and that's only because they were so industrially-viable. They often didn't intervene in the occasional skirmish between Slavic villagers and Roma bands, and I doubt they even investigated most case involving Slavs. It's kinda sad really, a lot of Slavs actually look up to the Germans, but they have always kinda sneered down their noses at us.
Yes sad but wasn't there a lot of inter marriages between germans in the east and their Slavic neighbors ?

And I live in Chicago ( more poles, serbs, czechs here than warsaw or Belgrade maybe not sure) and honestly many of them seem more classically "Nordic " then those germans I see in downstate Illinois.
 
Yes sad but wasn't there a lot of inter marriages between germans in the east and their Slavic neighbors ?

And I live in Chicago ( more poles, serbs, czechs here than Warsaw or Belgrade maybe not sure) and honestly many of them seem more classically "Nordic " then those germans I see in downstate Illinois.

That's kinda one of the classic quips that people mention about Hitler being surprised there was a seemingly greater proportion of blue eyes and blonde hair in Poland than in Germany. And yes, Chicago has the most Polish people of any city in the world aside from Warsaw.

There were a lot of intermarriages, but it appears that more often than not, Slavs were assimilated into German culture rather than the reverse. This is more conjecture than anything, because I have no real way of backing that up, but it's the impression I have got from what I have read. Since German culture was a lot more urbanised than primarily village-based Slavic culture, it was generally more sophisticated at the higher level and encouraged assimilation. That being said, I would say that most people in the Czech Republic at least, if not in Poland too and to a lesser extent in former Austro-Hungarian territory have some German ancestry. German lords may have primarily married German women, but I would be amazed if having Slavic mistresses wasn't extremely common, with the accompanying unrecognised bastards that would be raised as Slavs.

Insofar as one can associate particular ethnic groups or groupings with certain "looks", which always has some problems inherently anyway, there does seem to be an Eastern European "look". To use myself as an example, my father is Croatian but my mother is of an Anglo-Saxon and Scandinavian background, and people constantly mistake me for being either Polish, Russian or Ukrainian, because I'm a lot fairer-skinned than most Yugoslavs but people still pin me as Eastern European. This despite having blue eyes and blondish hair. One thing that always struck me about old Soviet and Eastern European statues is that if they're modelled after a particular figure they're often very true to what they looked like, whilst abstract "Soviet man/woman" figures look German to me. Something to do with statuesqueness of finer cheekbones and stuff probably. Also I don't think that there's been any academic study on it, but I also kinda feel like in a lot of Slavic cultures (and it's more noticeable in older generations) is Nordicist biases despite the fact they aren't included in that, which seems to suggest a favouring of "Germanic" features akin to how African-Americans tend to prefer lighter skin etc.
 
I don't think it's implausible at all. Sure Nazis wanted "Lebensraum," what that means is that Germans get to rule over Slavic lands and do what they will with them; it doesn't automatically mean Generalplan Ost. IOTL you had lots of talk about which Slavs could be Germanized and which ones would have to be "evacuated," also on one occasion Hitler even went to the Ukraine, had a look at the peasants, and decided that they were more "Aryan" than he had previously believed.

Not as of the OTL stuff the the Nazis did for ideological reasons was set in stone, at least as far as the details were concerned, as people seem to be believe. Like any totalitarian political faith there was a great deal of rule-bending and redefinition going on.
 
If you get more White Russian exiles - including the large number of Baltic German aristocrats - involved in shaping Nazism, would that help?

It doesn't have to be Generplan Ost and the Hunger Plan. Nazi Germany could annex some areas for German settlers, but still establish a puppet Polish state, puppet Baltic states, and a puppet Ukrainian state too, completely under their thumb of course, similar to puppet Slovakia, Ustase Croatia, Nedic's Serbia and Axis Bulgaria. That would still be in accordance with core Nazi ideology.
 
Genocidal Nazi anti-Latinism doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Not like anti-Slavism, which had deep roots and history. Not to mention there's a lot more resource and good land to conquer out east.
 
anti-Semitic but NOT anti-Slav?

might end up allied to Poland? which had a fairly anti-Semitic regime at the time?
 
Genocidal Nazi anti-Latinism doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Not like anti-Slavism, which had deep roots and history. Not to mention there's a lot more resource and good land to conquer out east.

Anti-Latinism wouldn't be genocidal, but would probably be more of a "keep them in their place" deal because of German rivalry with, rather than hatred of the French.
 
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