WI: The Medieval Britons were Romance-speaking

[Tocomocho]

Inspired by this site, who draws parallels between the fortunes of the Britons and the Byzantines and paints both as successors of the Roman Empire. I know. Constantinople eventually switched to Greek and Britain really never spoke Latin.

I don't know exactly how likely is this (probably very little), but how could things be different in the development of British culture and national consciousness, if when William the Conqueror lands, at least Wales speaks a Latin-derived language?

 

[Dan1988]

Well, there's always Brithenig from Ill Beithsad (here's the page for it), but a thought experiment which would be interesting is that since peripheral varieties tend to be more conservative, I wonder how many archaisms would be preserved in such a case. Maybe a more fuller case system derived from both Vulgar and Classical Latin, perhaps?

EDIT: Another idea which would be interesting would be more differing developments of the vowels that don't have to strictly follow Western Romance (cf. Eastern Romance where the original front vowels */iː/, */ɪ/, */eː/, */ɛ/ followed the usual Western Romance pattern towards lowering */ɪ/ leaving us with three front vowels */iː/, */eː/, */ɛ/ but where the original back vowels */uː/, */ʊ/, */oː/, */ɔ/, as well as the vowel pair */aː/, */a/ followed Sardinian in levelling out the length and quality distinctions towards three "back" vowels */u/, */o/, */a/). For example, how about a stronger distinction between */aː/, */a/, and/or a shift in the back vowels so that although the vowel qualities would be different (with some front to central rounded vowels in there) the Classical Latin distinction in the back vowels would be preserved?

 

[LSCatilina]

I may answer wrongly, but for both sake of the OP and plausibility, is the appearance of a romance speaking language in medieval Britain after the Norman conquest would be okay?

As in, part of England being settled by continental population for X reason, and develloping there their on variety of Langue d'Oil?

 

[Dan1988]

I may answer wrongly, but for both sake of the OP and plausibility, is the appearance of a romance speaking language in medieval Britain after the Norman conquest would be okay?

As in, part of England being settled by continental population for X reason, and develloping there their on variety of Langue d'Oil?

I would assume so, but IMO only if it retains more of the case system instead of the simple nominative/oblique system of Old French (say, for example, retaining and actively using the genitive) and/or reorganizing the system to a direct/oblique one like in most Indo-Aryan languages. But that's just my personal preference - the OP would probably assume otherwise. Generally, to me the more diversity in Romance languages the more interesting and better.

 

[LSCatilina]

I would assume so, but IMO only if it retains more of the case system instead of the simple nominative/oblique system of Old French (say, for example, retaining and actively using the genitive) and/or reorganizing the system to a direct/oblique one like in most Indo-Aryan languages.

I doubt it would cause so radical changes compared to Old French IOTL, unless we have a radical separation of these population from continental dialects (and in this case, I tend to think it would simply disappear, without regular "injections")

Sujet/Régime cases were, after all, essentially litterary devices after the XIIIth century. (And completly on the loose after the XIVth, with random use of cases, because it sounds great).

The appearance of a direct case, when the tendency is to their disappearance, would quite strange, IMHO.

I'm thinking more about some sort of "medieval Canadian French", with settlers coming from Normandy, Brittany and Picardy, forming a more or less specific dialect once settled (as the mix between Catalans, Mozarabs and Aquitain settlers formed the specificity of Valencian dialect)

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

I doubt it would cause so radical changes compared to Old French IOTL, unless we have a radical separation of these population from continental dialects (and in this case, I tend to think it would simply disappear, without regular "injections")

Sujet/Régime cases were, after all, essentially litterary devices after the XIIIth century. (And completly on the loose after the XIVth, with random use of cases, because it sounds great).

The appearance of a direct case, when the tendency is to their disappearance, would quite strange, IMHO.

I'm thinking more about some sort of "medieval Canadian French", with settlers coming from Normandy, Brittany and Picardy, forming a more or less specific dialect once settled (as the mix between Catalans, Mozarabs and Aquitain settlers formed the specificity of Valencian dialect)

Well, AngloNorman French was a real thing, preserving archaic forms of the language eg 'castel' instead of 'château' - where the ca/cha change had already happened in ÎledeFrance French, but not in Normand or Picard, while the 'st/^t' and 'el/eau' changes happened after 1066.

But, of course, AngloNorman was only the speech of the upper class, not wildly used.

 

[LSCatilina]

But, of course, AngloNorman was only the speech of the upper class, not wildly used.

Anglo-Norman wasn't really a dialect per se, its relation to continental Normans and overall Oil language forbidding it as well than its social use making it too tied to continental and/or scholarly evolution.

It's why it shouldn't be used as a base for TTL dialect (that, for the sake of discussion, I'd call Angliet).

Such romance dialect would be quite influenced by Anglo-Saxon, and while keeping many archaism (as many semi-isolated dialects), you should have an inner evolution.

Regarding the sound evolution : the change between k/ch wasn't suddern. Picard had some sort of intermediary form, attesed for the XII-XIIth centuries.
So we'd have to work with as well AS influence, and a maintained evolution at the contact of Normand and Gallo dialects.

By exemple, using castel, "Tchestèl" or "Tchistèl" maybe written something as "Cystle"

(I begin to get interested on working more on this)

 

[Dan1988]

I'm thinking more about some sort of "medieval Canadian French", with settlers coming from Normandy, Brittany and Picardy, forming a more or less specific dialect once settled (as the mix between Catalans, Mozarabs and Aquitain settlers formed the specificity of Valencian dialect)

That would definitely be interesting. At least Canadian French itself (particularly joual and Acadian French) would at least provide some precedent (Newfoundland French would appear to be so, but it - like its counterpart in SPM - actually branched off in the 19th century, and thus is closer to Metropolitan French albeit with a local flair derived from Norman, Breton, and Basque immigration); considering that the Grand Banks/Gulf of St. Lawrence area attracted all sorts of people in part due to the fisheries, I honestly would not be surprised if there was also influence from Basque and maybe other languages further afield. However, in the case of transplantation in Britain, hence the OP, it would be interesting to see how the existing languages, both Celtic and Germanic, interact.

 

[Dan1988]

Well, AngloNorman French was a real thing, preserving archaic forms of the language eg 'castel' instead of 'château' - where the ca/cha change had already happened in ÎledeFrance French, but not in Normand or Picard, while the 'st/^t' and 'el/eau' changes happened after 1066.

One doesn't even have to look that far - there's Jèrriais, Dgèrnésais, Sercquais, and the like, all from the Channel Islands, and all are dialects of Norman French.