WI: The maratha confederacy became a republic

Anawrahta

Banned
Through contacts with the Dutch Republic and Cromwell's English Commonwealth, the nascent Maratha Confederacy reorganized itself into a republican arrangement in order to further greater unity and cohesion. This might be a potential solution for OTL's endemic partisan fighting that led to the confederacy's demise.
 
A Maratha republic at the same time as cromwells requires a very old pod. I think the most democratic the Marathas could potentially get, is if the peshwaship is made an elected post around the 1730s, as in OTL, the transition from chatrapati power to peshwa power happened so slowly no one really realised it. There would be tons of opposition to a republican government not least on the basis of caste but also as it would require them to declare themselves independent of Mughal power, which they never did otl even when they controlled Delhi itself.
 
The only thing I know about the Maratha Confederacy is that they always end up conquering Persia and becoming the most powerful faction in the world in Empire Total War.
 
Why would a monarchy just become a republic? It's not like there was a liberal middle class, just a warrior class, generals, and nobles which held power in the state over disparate subjects, as many of the early liberal revolutions in Europe found out when you give the vote to everyone, they tend to disagree and vote for things like monarchy. What changed it later was universal education.
 

Anawrahta

Banned
A Maratha republic at the same time as cromwells requires a very old pod. I think the most democratic the Marathas could potentially get, is if the peshwaship is made an elected post around the 1730s, as in OTL, the transition from chatrapati power to peshwa power happened so slowly no one really realised it. There would be tons of opposition to a republican government not least on the basis of caste but also as it would require them to declare themselves independent of Mughal power, which they never did otl even when they controlled Delhi itself.

Well, to clarify my proposal; I was thinking of an electoral college or a parliament that would initially consist of holders of large to medium sized fiefdoms, who would elect a chhatrapati for a definite term. I am speculating that any analogous republican arrangment could arise early on in order to unite the potentially fractious confederacy into a truly unified state(no pun intended). This quasi-republic could prove to be more effective at the reunification and modernization of india and from colonization by european or resurgent islamic powers.
I don't think the establishment of the quasi-republic would be anathema to mughal overlordship. It could simply be seen as a structural reorganization of the preexisting maratha confederacy. I see the arrangement being only restricted to relevant nobles, and then gradually extended to all dvija who are applicable to the now expanded criteria- from there on I'm not sure.
It could arise as an agreement between Shivaji and his noble allies in order further a specific interest of the former.
Thanks for your reply :)
 

Anawrahta

Banned
Why would a monarchy just become a republic? It's not like there was a liberal middle class, just a warrior class, generals, and nobles which held power in the state over disparate subjects, as many of the early liberal revolutions in Europe found out when you give the vote to everyone, they tend to disagree and vote for things like monarchy. What changed it later was universal education.
This idea would be that the office of chhatrapati develops into an office appointed by members of an electoral college(like an estates general), before it developed into an established monarchy.
 
This idea would be that the office of chhatrapati develops into an office appointed by members of an electoral college(like an estates general), before it developed into an established monarchy.
But before it developed into an established monarchy, the office didn't exist. It was created as way for Shivaji to formalise his personal superiority over other Maratha chiefs well after he had assumed effective leadership of them. He wasn't then going to create a term limit for himself. There was no cultural analogue to the germanic tradition of royal elections in the indic tradition and creating that as a new institution would have very little legitimacy. Moreover, Shivaji himself was obsessed with his image and would never allow himself to be thought of as weak enough to be subject to the decisions of others. If that was an idea he was forced to accept, I imagine his immediate plan would be to force re-election as soon as his "term limit was over" and keep that going until he dies, at which point maybe someone else forces their own election, or maybe people break off to hold their own elections. I don't think the benefits of a republican government translate well to a 17th century Indian context. But I am a little intrigued, do you have any idea on interests of Shivaji's that this alliance would help nobles agree to?
 
Shouldn’t be too difficult. India had a republican tradition from long back. Some mahajanapadas for example some of them were republics and given the importance of Indian epics in Maratha period and knowledge of the Puranas etc.. a republic akin to the one in the classical Indian period could be possible. Though how I am not sure but politically it would be feaseable.
 
Shouldn’t be too difficult. India had a republican tradition from long back. Some mahajanapadas for example some of them were republics and given the importance of Indian epics in Maratha period and knowledge of the Puranas etc.. a republic akin to the one in the classical Indian period could be possible. Though how I am not sure but politically it would be feaseable.

The thing is, there’s no mahajanapada that we know definitely was a republic- they may well have been, but it’s much more likely that it was a limited oligarchy. Though there may have been, its hard to interpret the scriptures as that instead of an oligarchy, which is much more common unless that’s what you’re looking for which could only happen with a middle class agitating for a republic anyway. If you have that middle class and those enlightenment ideals infecting a fair bit of society, you could definitely have a Brahmin interpret mahajanapadas as republics but India’s middle class in the mid 1600s weren’t exactly Voltaire
 
The thing is, there’s no mahajanapada that we know definitely was a republic- they may well have been, but it’s much more likely that it was a limited oligarchy. Though there may have been, its hard to interpret the scriptures as that instead of an oligarchy, which is much more common unless that’s what you’re looking for which could only happen with a middle class agitating for a republic anyway. If you have that middle class and those enlightenment ideals infecting a fair bit of society, you could definitely have a Brahmin interpret mahajanapadas as republics but India’s middle class in the mid 1600s weren’t exactly Voltaire

Also you've got to remember that a Cromwellian Republic is a despotic Dictatorship. The use of the Mahajanapadas using the Ganarajya republican system would be akin to a European state in the mid 1600s opening the history books and writing their constitutions based on the Mos Maiorum of the Romans. This would happen but in the late 18th century with the founding of America.

And is it is the Maratha expansion acted as a great leveller and added a framework that was far more egalitarian than any state preceding it had been in a long time.
 
The Ganarajya models of democratic states which existed in the fourth and fifth centuries BCE were more or less tribal states like Lichchavis. With the growth of the powerful kingdoms like Magadha, Kosala etc. and the establishment of the Maurya Empire the republican system ended at higher levels. The councils of people continued at the local administration levels, like the thirty member City Council of Pataliputra in the Mauryan Empire. There were popular assemblies in later kingdoms and empires also. But a republican model of administration was not likely to get the attention of a victorious military leader in the later half of the seventeenth century India. Hence the best choice for Shivaji was nothing but a crown on his head.
 
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