WI the kingdom of Knut the great had not fallen apart?

Fabilius

I suppose most of you call him Canute, but I first heard of him as Knútur Hinn Ríki.

Could a Norway-Denmark-England remain united?

What if Harthacanute had been a more mild and nicer ruler. Someone that could be called: Knut the second. Surviving longer, maybe having a different heir than Edward the confessor.

That would make Denmark-England hold a little longer. Magnus would become king in Norway and soon he´d face his uncle Harold Harthrada and become way to busy to think about Denmark.

Next we might get Knut the third, someone that has become a little more English, still a bit danish though, he´ll have to fight to keep Denmark out of the hands of other brothers. (Maybe they´ll switch to the oldest gets everything instead of the old norse way of splitting it up always).
 

Fabilius

TL

1015 - King Knut II of Denmark & Norway again invades England; war between Danes and Saxons.

1016 - Edmund Ironside, son of Aethelred II the Unready of England, becomes King. He and King Knut II of Denmark & Norway meet on the Isle of Alney near Deerhurst and agree to divide the kingdom: Knut holds the north and Edmund Wessex; Edmund is assassinated; Knut takes the throne as King Knut the Great of England.

1017 - King Knut the Great divides England into four earldoms.

1019 - King Knut the Great marries the Dowager-Queen Emma, widow of Aethelred II. Knut gives the relics of St. Wigstan to Evesham Abbey. They are translated from Repton.

1026 - King Knut the Great's steward, Orc, founds Abbotsbury Abbey.

1035 - Death of Knut the Great of England, Denmark & Norway: his possessions are divided; Harold I Harefoot, becomes King of England (to 1040).

1040 - Knut IV of Denmark becomes King of England after killing his brother (to 1042); he dies of drink(Not in this version).

1041 Knut II of England, marries into a powerful Saxon noble family (If you have suggestions for someone I´m listening) Later that year a son is born and named Harold. (Perhaps out of guilt).

1042 A daughter is born and named Emma. Knut returns to Denmark later that year to ensure his fellow countrymen he is still their king as well. He spends the Yule there and goes to England during the spring.

1043 Magnus (Who in OTL became known as the good) king of Norway invades Denmark. This is because the agreement he had reached with Knut about inheriting Denmark has broken, since Knut announced when he came to Denmark that his son Harold would inherit everything.

1044 During the winter Magnus went back home and stayed in Kaupang. (close to OTL Oslo) As soon as Knut had gathered enough men he went to Denmark to join the rest of his army. Magnus seems to have miscalculated his own strength and loses the battle. Needless to say, he is killed.

1045 Knut spends the year trying to gain a new hold on Norway. The Norwegians remember their oppression and resent the Danes. For now they surrender though. Knut hears of a coup in England when he returns to Denmark, his wife along with his children has fled to Denmark since saxon noblemen have risen against him. Knut returns to England and wins the rebellers in the battle of Hastings 7th August, which later becomes a festive day and a convenient excuse to drink a lot.

1046 Harold Harthrada returns to Norway. He is the brother of Olav the cruel (in OTL saint Olaf) and therefore the uncle of former king Magnus. He starts a rebellion. Knut II army really isn´t mobilised, it is tired and Knut realizes that. He sends soldiers to Denmark to prepare for a war, but nothing more.

1047 Harold declares himself king of Norway at a thing close to Bergen. Danes flee from Norway and a lot of people in Denmark want war, (i.e. nobles), the nobles in England on the other hand aren´t interested, they aren´t caught up in the scandinavian rivalry and don´t have interest or interests in Norway. Knut decides to stay at home, and leaves the war in Norway to his jarl in Denmark Sven.
Sven goes to Norway and loses for Harold in a battle. Harold is an experienced warrior, (and according to Heimskringla he was a general in the Byzantine army before returning home) When Knut hears of this he decides to do something about this before it gets out of hand and goes to Denmark.

1048 Harold and Knut meet. Harold gives away some pieces of land in south of Norway, acknowledges Knut´s ownership of the Vik, and Knut instead acknowledges Harold as king of Norway. Most notably Harold accepts that the earldom of Shetlands and Orkney go to England.
On the other hand Harold´s son Harold gets the hand of Knut´s daughter Emma.

1049 Knut puts lot of money in monastery and church building. He has not been noted for being very religious but this is very similar to a modern PR stunt. It goes well in England.

1051 Knut visits Denmark for the last time.

1057 Olaf Haroldsson marries princess Emma of England. His brother Harold which had been meant to marry her died two years earlier.

1061 Knut dies and is succeeded by his son Harold Knutsson.

1063 Danes grow dissatisfied. A rebellion in Denmark occurs and is lead by a man named Sven Ulfsson. Harold is forced to go to Denmark and fight. He asks for help from Norway but Harold Harthrada doesn´t show up. (Perhaps hoping for his namesake to die, in which case his son would inherit everything).

1064 The Danish rebellion is defeated, but Harold sees that it has ties leading to Sweden. He decides to sail into the baltics and teach the swedish king a lesson. To bad this is the end for Harold II...
 

Fabilius

part 2

1065 The news reached Harold and his son Olaf of Norway before winter. They spent the Yule at many gatherings and feasts, trying to gain support for an invasion into England. They reach the coast of England early spring and Olaf is claimed king.

1066 The year of fate... William the Conquerer (was born before the POD, but I intend to go by the chaos theory idea, and after about 20 years there won´t be any players that did exist also in OTL) decides to invade England. A large norman army arrives in the south. William was certain that the nobles of England wouldn´t stick long with Olaf, but they do. A combined norse-saxon army meets William and he is defeated.
Harold Harthrada takes a portion of the army and invades Normandy, there is looting and pillaging, but this is by most historians seen as the end of the Viking age. Harold Harthrada goes down in history as the last viking king.

1067 Olaf I of England (Olaf the norwegian as he´d become known) arrives to Denmark. There he meets his wife´s younger brother Knut who is sixteen. Knut had been claimed by the Danes to be their king after Harold, but their army quickly surrenders to Olaf´s. Olaf shows mercy on Knut and takes him to England. A year later Knut returns to Denmark to become Jarl of Denmark.

1069 Harold Harthrada dies and Olaf becomes king of England, Norway and Denmark. Once again the kingdom of Knut the great is united.






*Well it is obvious that I need to study some other scenarios that revolve around William the conquerer not conquering. I´d like to know what you guys think... obviously.
 

HelloLegend

Banned
We would have a larger percentage of his great (x whatever generation) granddaughters from which to choose from for mating purposes.

And trust me, they would make desirable mating partners.
 

Constantinople

Banned
Well the danish influx of words into english wouldnt be quite be a sever as french into english. The languages were much more similar, I would think, that english just stays mostly germanic, a tad bit more norse, with many more danish placenames.
Timelinetimeline
 

Nicole

Hm, weren't there parts of England (The Danelaw and the area around Jorvik) that were basically Norse-speaking (Danish, Norwegian, and Swedish hadn't split yet) because they were settled by Vikings? So this could result in a rather Danified Anglo-Saxon language.
 

Fabilius

Imajin said:
Hm, weren't there parts of England (The Danelaw and the area around Jorvik) that were basically Norse-speaking (Danish, Norwegian, and Swedish hadn't split yet) because they were settled by Vikings? So this could result in a rather Danified Anglo-Saxon language.
Click to expand...

I would think so too. It depends on how long Denmark-England union can last. It is even more fragile than a Calmar one since the nobility cannot easily intermarry.
 

arctic warrior

Fabilius said:
I would think so too. It depends on how long Denmark-England union can last. It is even more fragile than a Calmar one since the nobility cannot easily intermarry.
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Language would be one issue to keep the parts of the Kingdom together. I don't see why the nobility can't intermarry. There was sea-borne traffic, it shouldn't be a problem. That would link Denmark and England. But the problem I percieve would be to make the Saxon nobility interested in Denmark, the grappings would seem too small in comparison with those in England.
A way to tie things together would be the Church. Instead of having the Danes going for a independent Arc-bishopric, to rid themselves of Hamburg-Bremen influence, have the Arc-bishop of York be the Church lord of Denmark. The revenue of ten's and of land granted the Church along with souls secured could do some of the trick, I imagine. OTL the arc-bishop of Hamburg-Bremen would accuse the Danish King Sven Fork-Beard of Heresy and Paganism because of his use of English clergy in Denmark. The church competion in Scandinavia was very real.
That could mean an anglicised Denmark over time.

About Normandy you would by TTL not have William the Bastard being promised succession to the English throne and then he would have had trouble getting Papal approval of his expedition, and thus less rallying to his banner. You might go for butterflying away the Norman conquest or a limited Norman expedition.
 

Fabilius

arctic warrior said:
Language would be one issue to keep the parts of the Kingdom together. I don't see why the nobility can't intermarry. There was sea-borne traffic, it shouldn't be a problem. That would link Denmark and England. But the problem I percieve would be to make the Saxon nobility interested in Denmark, the grappings would seem too small in comparison with those in England.
A way to tie things together would be the Church. Instead of having the Danes going for a independent Arc-bishopric, to rid themselves of Hamburg-Bremen influence, have the Arc-bishop of York be the Church lord of Denmark. The revenue of ten's and of land granted the Church along with souls secured could do some of the trick, I imagine. OTL the arc-bishop of Hamburg-Bremen would accuse the Danish King Sven Fork-Beard of Heresy and Paganism because of his use of English clergy in Denmark. The church competion in Scandinavia was very real.
That could mean an anglicised Denmark over time.

About Normandy you would by TTL not have William the Bastard being promised succession to the English throne and then he would have had trouble getting Papal approval of his expedition, and thus less rallying to his banner. You might go for butterflying away the Norman conquest or a limited Norman expedition.
Click to expand...

You have a point there. If Denmark gets the same archbishop things get easier.
I like an anglicised Denmark as well as a more Danisised England. Although the rulers are nordic at first, England wins in the end since it´s bigger and richer.

About butterflying away William the Bastards invasion opens up questions:

Since William has been born before the POD, he is still the William we know. This William has ambition. What would he do? Is he more focused on the powerstruggle in France? Would he still look towards England hoping for a chance to invade it?

I liked the irony in Normandy getting sacked in the last raid of the viking times, but I´m willing to change it for increased plausibility, or something cooler if it comes along.

What do you think? What would you do if you were William the Conquerer?
 

arctic warrior

Fabilius said:
About butterflying away William the Bastards invasion opens up questions:

Since William has been born before the POD, he is still the William we know. This William has ambition. What would he do? Is he more focused on the powerstruggle in France? Would he still look towards England hoping for a chance to invade it?

I liked the irony in Normandy getting sacked in the last raid of the viking times, but I´m willing to change it for increased plausibility, or something cooler if it comes along.

What do you think? What would you do if you were William the Conquerer?
Click to expand...

William had ties by family to the Saxon English Royals. That would give him a claim when the throne is vacated. But TTL he wouldn't have a promise of succession and hence no Papal banner.
From what I've read William made an assessment of the opposing force and wanted max. troops/support. Also the Papal banner is part of this. He seized the opportunity, but made his preparations.
He had before the conquest defeated Brittany, thus enlarged his French domain.
I think William wouldn't go unless well prepared. I don't think he'd just scramble whatever at hand and set sail. But I don't know.
IMHO William would continue power-playing in France, going for the throne.

Why do you want a new dynasty on the English throne? Why change to Norwegian - give Hardarada credit? Olaf could get the support in York, but then William could land in England as a legitimate heir and rally support. Who'd support Olaf outside York?

If there is a time vacuum, why not have somebody rush Knut from Denmark into England and get him on the throne? That somebody could be William, thanks for helping out in Normandy 945. (Yes I know, seems illogic, but on the other hand William could see this as a long term investment) and have a daughter of William marry Knut.

And then with William off Norman soil have Harald Hardarada go vikinging in Normandy and the French King joining the fray...
 

Fabilius

A different version perhaps...

1065 The news reached Harold and his son Olaf of Norway before winter. They spent the Yule at many gatherings and feasts, trying to gain support for an invasion into England. They reach the coast of England early spring, do no pillaging and go to a meeting with the saxon nobles. Olaf I is accepted as he has the best claim to the throne.

1066 The year of fate... William the Conquerer (was born before the POD, but I intend to go by the chaos theory idea, and after about 20 years there won´t be any players that did exist also in OTL) A distant cousin of the former king Harold decides to do absolutely nothing for now. He has recently conquered Brittony and focuses now mostly at the French power struggle. This will eventually lead to the Norman dynasty of France

1067 Olaf I of England (Olaf the norwegian as he´d become known) arrives to Denmark. He appoints Harold Godwynsson, a saxon noble man that was very revered by the former king Harold Knutsson, to become Jarl of Denmark.

1068 Harold Godwynsson marries to Olaf I sister Asrid. There is a rebellion in Denmark again but it is quelched.

1069 Harold Harthrada dies and Olaf becomes king of England, Norway and Denmark. Once again the kingdom of Knut the great is united.

1070 Olaf and Emma get a daughter, they name her Asrid.

1072 Olaf and Emma get another daughter, they name her Sigrid.

1074 Olaf and Emma get a son, sadly he is not breathing after the birth.

1075 Olaf and Emma get yet another daughter, Gudrid. Olaf finds this troubling, (unlike OTL guys like Henry VIII his claim to the English throne stems from his wife and without her he is basicly just a Norwegian pirate) on the other hand Jarl Harold and Asrid seem to be doing fine in producing heirs. Their son Knut seems to healthy, strong and bright.

1076 Olaf notices that the Jarl of Orkneys, Erlend has become increasingly powerful in Scotland. He has in fact gained so much land there he doesn´t need much more to swallow it up and become king. All he needs is just support from the chieftains of Scotland. Olaf invites him to London for Yule and is assured by the Jarl, that he has no ambition to become king of Scotland. They drink a lot together and the Jarl reminds the king that they are both Norwegian. Olaf and Erlend agree that Asrid the oldest daughter of the king shall marry the Jarl´s oldest son Rognvald (Rögnvaldur).

1077 Olaf visits Denmark and Harold Godwynsson. He spends the Yule there before going north to Norway. He returns home after assuring the norwegians that he is still one of them, despite having raised taxes a little bit.

1078 A messenger from Norway reaches Iceland and offers Iceland the protection from the king of Norway, England, Denmark and the Orkneys. Many Icelanders feel they should accept the offer. After all most young men go now to the court of either Harold Godwynsson in Denmark, Erlend of Orkney´s or to Olaf in England, and all the trade Iceland has with the rest of the world is with the kingdom of Olaf, (except for a little trade in Ireland). However as Olaf hasn´t threatened them with anything those who want remain independent still have the majority although all realize that if the king decides that they´re his, they really don´t have a choice.

1080 Finally the pope gives his verdict. The archbishop of Bremen is not the archbishop of the north. England is obviously the one that converted the north. England converted king Knut the great, England converted the Norwegians and the Danes, and the Norwegians converted the Icelanders and Greenlanders.
The Archbishop of York presides over Denmark. The bishop of Lund is under him. He also presides over the Bishop of Norway and the Icelandic bishop of Skalholt.

1081-1083 The scottish wars. Erlend of the Orkney´s conquers Scotland with help from king Olaf´s army. He becomes the Jarl of Scotland. (This is not the end of free Scotland though)

1084 Harold Godwynson returns to England, he doesn´t go immediatly to see the king. In fact he has taken his son along with him and is trying see how much support he could get to become king after Olaf. He visits Olaf eventually and spends the Yule with him. He tries to remind Olaf that back in 77 he promised to declare Knut his heir. Olaf assures him he has not forgotten.

1085 Harold announces in Denmark that Knut will inherit the crown of England. The Danes are happy because although Harold is English and Asrid norwegian, they view Knut as a dane, first of all the name helps, but also the fact that he has spent his hole life in Denmark and his father has governed wisely. They view Knut as a possible return of power to Denmark.

1086 When Erlend hears the news of this he is furious. Has Olaf forgotten his promise. Erlend realizes that he has problems if he intends to put his son Rognvald on the throne. First of all his men could be tied up if the Scottish rebel. Secondly, Harold Godwynsson has strong support in Denmark, and strong support in England. Rognvaldur on the other hand has stronger support in Norway and a more direct claim to the throne, that is if he gets married to Asrid.

1087 Rognvaldur and Asrid marry. Olaf I announces that Rognvaldur shall inherit the kingdom after his death. This results in a lot of: "What? What? WHAT?" from English and Danish nobility. Some talk about that the Norwegian is over-extending his welcome.

1088 The Archbishop of York joins the Saxon discontent by claiming that Rognvaldur cannot become king as his father is an illegimate bastard child. This angers Olaf I and he rides to see the Arch bishop along with his army. He intends to use force to make the Arch bishop change his claim. It works but it outrages the nobility of England even more.

1089 The nobles rebel against Olaf. The soldiers that remain loyal to Olaf are to few to counter the force of the rebels. Basicly just the Norwegians and Icelanders stick to him, while the Saxons and Danes tell him to stick it. Olaf is defeated and is made to sign a declaration. The king shall not be able to assign an heir without the consent of a council of English and Danish noblemen. He is also forced to accept Knut Haroldsson as his heir.

Of course Erlend and Rognvaldur are bound to do something...
 

Fabilius

Part 2, can´t wait for replies want to continue

1090 Rognvaldur visits Norway to check out his support there. It seems the Norwegians are relatively satisfied as it is. They mostly get to govern themselves and they don´t see any difference in having him or Knut as king. Later this year Erlend dies and Rognvaldur returns home. He visits Olaf for Yule only to discover that the king´s power has grown less and most in the hand of his advisors. Olaf is dying from an illness that the doctors don´t know what to do about, but he still has some strength. Olaf gives Rognvald the title of Jarl.

1091 Rognvaldur returns to Orkneys. He is certain that it´s poison that is dragging Olaf to death, when he hears that Olaf is dead he declares himself king of Scotland.
Knut is crowned king of England soon after Olaf´s death. In fact he and his father stayed in England waiting for Olaf to die. When Knut III hears of Rognvald´s rebellion he gathers an army and heads for Scotland.

1091-1092 Rognvald manages to get the chieftains of Scotland to join him, descendants from Vikings in the north, Picts in the south and Gaelic speaking Scots join him to fight against the Danes. (Although at this point the Danes are mostly English/Danes).
At first things go well for Knut the III but when they face the army of Rognvald they lose the first battle. After that the war drags on and finally in March 1092 Knut accepts Scotland´s freedom. Rognvald becomes Rognvald I of Scotland, and Knut settles for invading Wales instead.

1093 Wales becomes a part of Knut III kingdom. But there is trouble brewing in Norway. To be able to afford to send an army to Norway Knut needs to raise taxes. The nobles object and Knut can´t afford to send an army over there. Knut will later on get the name Knut the weak since under him Norway became independent again. The leader of the revolution is named Sigurd and claims to be descended from king Harold Hairfair. Most historians today think it´s a possibility that he was a fraud, although it´s not impossible that the claim is true as well.

1095 Pope Urban second calls on a great crusade. (Pope Urban is the only historical character left that manages to avoid having his birth butterflyed into the birth of someone else, as he is born slightly before the POD itself, anyway, in Iberia and in Byzantine and middle east things are pretty similar so the crusades start as OTL). The Knights and peasants of Europe hear the call and the crusade is kickstarted.

1096 Knut and his wife get a son and name him Harold. Rognvaldur of Scotland sends a ship to the Faero islands and they become a part of his kingdom. The Icelanders show no interest in joining him.

1097 The bishop of Nidaros crowns Sigurd king of Norway. The Arch bishop of York objects to it.

1099 The archbishop appoints another bishop into Nidaros. This bishop is English, not Danish like the previous ones. This starts Norwegian ambitions for getting their own archbishop.
This year Jerusalem is captured by crusaders.

1101 A second crusade sets forth, lead by Robert of Normandy and the archbishop of Milan. Most people in the crusade are from France and north Italy. (They do slightly better against the Seljuks being slightly more organised) They suffer heavy losses from the Seljuks but reach Jerusalem and support it.

1103 Knut is mocked by Englanders for not taking on a crusade. He starts the building of a great cathedral, but it doesn´t help his image.

1104 Godfrey I is recognised by Robert and other crusader leaders in the Levant as the king of Jerusalem. Later this year Robert sets sails for home.

1106 Sidon and Acre become part of the Jerusalem kingdom.

1109 Beirut is captured by the crusaders. Harold son of Sigurd king of Norway sets sails for Jerusalem.

1111 King Knut visits Denmark. He founds a city and calls it Haroldsburgh*. (It is in the same place as OTL Copenhagen). He sails into the Baltics and reclaims Borgundholm under the Danish/English crown.

1112 When King Knut returns to England he tries to convince nobles there that it would be worthy assignment to go to Sweden on a crusade. He wants to make Götaland and Uppsala parts of his kingdom and thereby proving himself after the Scotland-Norway fiasco. To bad the nobles are reluctant to go. Sweden doesn´t interest them at all. Going on a crusade in the baltics would be an assignment left to his son.

1113 Harold the crusader and heir to Norway dies in the battle of Antioch. Antioch is claimed by the crusaders but no male heirs remain for the crown of Norway. Rognvaldur grabs the chance and gets his oldest son married to the daughter of Sigurd, Sigridur.

1115 Baldwin I son of Godfrey becomes the king of Jerusalem.

1116 Rognvaldur dies and is succeeded by his son Ragnar. Ragnar becomes the ruler of Norway and Scotland after Sigurdur dies in 1119

1122 William I becomes king of France, the first of the Norman dynasty.

1124 Ragnar makes the traditional offer to the Icelanders but they refuse the king of Norway once more.

1130 Knut announces that he intends to share his power with his son Harold. Harold III becomes king of Denmark and later that year king of England.

1131 Although Knut will still live another five years the power is almost entirely in the hands of his son. Harold III seems to have better luck than his father in dealing with noblemen and convinces them that it´s their duty to go on a crusade to Sweden.

1132 The English/Danish army attacks Uppsala, sacks and burns it. After killing the king of Sweden Harold claims the title and is blessed by the church.

1133 Harold goes on the Götaland expedition, there is burning, raping, looting and baptising. Godwyn Alfredsson becomes the bishop of Uppsala.

1135 The island of Saaremaa, in Estonia is claimed by Harold. After a succesful crusade he sails home.

1136 Upon his father death a grand crowning ceremony is held for king Harold in the newly built cathedral of York. Harold decides that the capitol of England should be in York.

1137 Harold goes on a military expedition to Flanders and puts in a Jarl there. The ambitious young king starts looking towards Norway and Scotland for possible conquests.

1138 Harold or saint Harold as he´d later be known breaks a bone while hunting and decides to cancel an invasion of Scotland. This turns out to have been rather lucky for the future of the kingdom for the gold chests were getting rather empty and a lot of money would have to be spent in the future to deal with Swedish revolutions.



*I´m open to suggestion for other names. Naming it after his father is fine for now.
 

Fabilius

1139 Eric the unlucky spawns the second swedish crusade. He and his fellow Swedes attack Uppsala and kill the bishop. The Swedes are angry against the Danes for the murders and atrocities commited by king Harold.

1140 A second crusader army sets sail under the leadership of Harold. He stops in Haroldsburgh, (named after his grandfather), to get the Danish part of the army and then enters land in Scania. The Swedes have invaded Scania and battles take place there at first. The Danes and English are superior in equipment and tactics and soon the army of Eric the unlucky is defeated and caught. Eric is impaled to set an example, but mostly to entertain the soldiers. The crusade continues though because the Swedes are bitter and Harold´s acts have made them hate the English and their religion.

1141 The norwegian/scottish kingdom gets an archbishop. But it has a condition. Ragnar must go on a crusade to assist Harold. The archbishop presides over Scotland and Norway, and is seated in Nidarros. Iceland is still under the archbishop of York.

1142 Ragnar sends reinforcements and helps his enemy in defeating the Swedes. Norway extends a little into Sweden, but the good parts stay apart of Denmark/England.
This crusade has caused a massive migration of pagan Swedes to Finland. (Swedes move to Finland in at least double the amount of OTL).

1144 Olaf the swedish founds the kingdom of Finland.

1145 After the death of Ragnar, Scotland and Norway split. His son Rognvaldur becomes king of Scotland and his son Sigurd king of Norway.


Kings so far:

The Swen dynasty:

1014: Swen Forkbeard.
1015-1035: Knut I the great (probably called the rich, and the word rich meaning powerful in TTL English)
1035-1040: Harold I Harefoot.
1040-1061: Knut II
1061-1065: Harold II

The time of the norwegian:

1065-1091: Olaf I the norwegian

The Godwynson dynasty:

1091-1135: Knut III
1130-????: Harold III the saint.


Well blimey, the union between Denmark and England seems to be working. I hope I don´t end up doing a rip off: The Anglo-Danish empire. :D
I have far from decided whether I shall let this union last.
 

Fabilius

The effects of this culturally speaking

A lot of more danish people moved to England after the time of Knut the great and in fact they integrated nicely. A lot of norwegians came in during Olaf I time in power meaning England took up a lot more norse words. But it wasn´t just a one sided influence. During the time of Olaf I an union started shaping and the nobility starting thinking this was a lasting condition. Danes returning from England and Englanders coming to Denmark brought with them words from Anglosaxon as well, and the English culture started to make Denmark move in a different direction.

In fact Denmark would become more different from Sweden and Norway than it did in our world.

People continued writing in Anglosaxon and once the Archbishop of York became the archbishop of Denmark, a lot of clergy was sent from England to Denmark. This had the results that a lot of things were written in English in Denmark as well. They wrote the sagas of the kings of Denmarks in York, Beowulf was written in Denmark in many versions. (Appropriate since it came from there). In Denmark pagan stories were gathered and written down much like they were in Iceland, and the poetry of Denmark and England prospered.
The Icelandic sagas took in a lot of influence from Denmark and England, but some influence was later on felt in England and Denmark as well. To bad Tolkien had been butterflyed away, as he would have loved to see the literature of this world.
Some French influence was inevitable, stories of knights and love poetry became popular, but never threatened to exterminate the local works.


England was already one of the richest area in Europe when Swen Forkbeard invaded, but during the time of Olaf the norwegian England became richer due to the fact that it monopolised the fishing trade. English/Danish traders sold fish to Germany and Poland for the fast right before Easter and earned a lot of money. Also the trade through the baltics prospered even more since the route between the baltic states and Russia to England and Flanders was under the control of the same king. In fact if Olaf hadn´t been so undecided and unwise in his last years he too might have been known as the rich.

In France William the I, who was also a descendant of viking kings became the king of France. Northern France to be exact for France would have some trouble uniting.
Germany was as well split.

Ah... the 1100s was truly the golden age of the Anglo/Danish kingdom.
 
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Fabilius

Max Sinister said:
I don't know whether the Anglo-Saxons at that time already spoke what you could call English...
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Yes I know. I don´t know what else I should call it though. It seems likely that whatever else kind of a language that comes out of this would end up being called English anyway.

But I agree 100% with you on this, it´s not really English. But I can´t call it German, Danish, Celtic, Briton either without being false as well.
 

EvolvedSaurian

Fabilius said:
Danglish?:rolleyes:

Denglish?:D

Nah... I´m assuming by the 1100s the Danes and the English both speak a different language although they have grown very similar.

Didn´t the Anglons come from Jutland to begin with anyway?
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Anglo-Saxon then, eventually becoming Danglish.

The Angles, Saxons and Jutes all came from around that area.
 
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