WI the IR weapons treaty never happened in the 1980s

Ak-84

Banned
that was one interception of an airstrike against mujahedin with no missiles where the soviets did not expect it (pakistani F-16s did several such intercepts where they failed to shoot down a single soviet plane despite being right on their six and the soviets having no idea they were there during the entire ordeal) with the result being 1 dead F-16 and 2 dead Mig-23s. The US themselves concluded in testing that the 23 was a superior fighter to the early non-bvr 16s.
You obviously don't know much then. There were hundreds of confrontations and this was only one of them. PAF pilots always said they found the MiG-21 more dangerous than the '23. WHich as an easy kill most of the time. PLus the F16 is thought to have been an own goal.
and no, by the 80s BVR was no longer overrated. It gave a high initial kill probability an massive initial tactical advantage.
Don't go by manufacturer quoted kill probabilities. MiG-23 in actual combat operation (like early F15 actually) with BVR suffered from two defects;
1) A flight needed to all coordinate what exactly each was seeing on its RADAR screens, this was done vide voice over the radio and only then could they actually have a useable solution. While this was happening, the WVR A/C would likely arrive in the midst of the formation shooting off IR AAM.
2) 1980's era RWR would warn the enemy pilot of acquisition, lock, and missile launch. By now it could also advise him of direction and time to impact. Which meant that he could avoid it more easily.

The 1980's USAF tactic versus fighters was to get into an advantageous position using GCI/AWACs. And then approach to effective range, let off two sidewinders at different vectors, fall back, rinse, lather, repeat. BVR was for larger A/C.
 

Ak-84

Banned
Without the INF treaty the Pershing II and GLCMs get redeployed to Sth Korea and CONUS in the 90s.
Yes. So unlike today when the US is outnumbered approximately 2000-0 in theatre launchers in the Pacific, we see several regiments worth of IRBM in Guam, Okinawa and even Alaska.
 

destiple

Banned
You obviously don't know much then. There were hundreds of confrontations and this was only one of them. PAF pilots always said they found the MiG-21 more dangerous than the '23. WHich as an easy kill most of the time. PLus the F16 is thought to have been an own goal.
thought ? by whom pakistanis ? they are nototious for exaggerating their own claims
look at the 65 war
how many mig-23s did they kill ? btw
 
Top