WI the Introduction of the P-51 Was Delayed Four Months?

It might be significant to know what the highest scoring American aces in the ETO flew.
Francis "Gabby" Gabreski 28.0 P-47
Robert S. Johnson 27.0 P-47
George Preddy 26.8 P-51
John C. Meyer 24.0 P-51
Ray Wetmore 22.6 P-51
David C. Schilling 22.5 P-47
Dominic Gentile 21.8 P-47
Fred J. Christensen 21.5 P-47
Walker M. 'Bud' Mahurin 20.8 P-47
Glenn E. Duncan 19.5 P-47
Duane W. Beeson 19.3 P-47
Leonard 'Kit' Carson 18.5 P-51
Glenn T. Eagleston 18.5 P-51
Walter C. Beckham 18.0 P-47
John Godfrey 18.0 SS 4FG P-51
 

jahenders

Banned
It might be significant to know what the highest scoring American aces in the ETO flew.

Here's a list of the first 15 or so. The P-47 is definitely ahead, but that likely reflects heavier usage earlier. Clearly, both the P-51 and P-47 could be deadly.

I cut it off at Col Zemke -- he commanded a P-47 group that did amazing work in protecting bombers and in "hunting" Luftwaffe fighter groups

Name Kills Medals Unit Plane
Francis "Gabby" Gabreski 28.0 DSC 56FG P-47
Robert S. Johnson 27.0 DSC 56FG P-47
George Preddy 26.8 DSC 352FG P-51
John C. Meyer 24.0 DSC 352FG P-51
Ray Wetmore 22.6 DSC 359FG P-51
David C. Schilling 22.5 DSC 56FG P-47
Dominic Gentile 21.8 DSC 4FG P-47
Fred J. Christensen 21.5 SS 56FG P-47
Walker M. 'Bud' Mahurin 20.8 DSC 56FG P-47
Glenn E. Duncan 19.5 DSC 353FG P-47
Duane W. Beeson 19.3 DSC 4FG P-47
Leonard 'Kit' Carson 18.5 SS 357FG P-51
Glenn T. Eagleston 18.5 DSC 354FG P-51
Walter C. Beckham 18.0 DSC 353FG P-47
John Godfrey 18.0 SS 4FG P-51
Col. Hubert 'Hub' Zemke 17.8 DSC 56FG P-47

Here's a list of the top 10 US aces not limited to ETO. Though the targets were different in the Pacific, you'll note the P-38 and F4 Corsair excelled.

Richard Bong US Army Air Force 40 P-38 Lightning
Thomas McGuire US Army Air Force 38 P-38 Lightning (Killed in action)
David McCampbell US Navy 34 F6F Hellcat
Gregory Boyington US Marine Corps 28 F4U Corsair
Francis Gabreski US Air Force 28 Spitfire / P-47 Thunderbolt
Robert Johnson US Army Air Force 28 P-47 Thunderbolt
Charles MacDonald US Army Air Force 27 P-38 Lightning
Joseph Foss US Marine Corps 26 F4F Wildcat
George Preddy US Air Force 26 P-51 Mustang (Killed in action)
Robert Hanson US Marine Corps 25 F4U Corsair (Killed in action)
Lance Wade Royal Air Force* 25 Spitfire (Killed in action)
 

jahenders

Banned
Do they talk about maneuverability at specific altitudes. In Fire in the Sky, Bergerud claims the P-47 was quite nimble at high altitudes (like 25,000 feet) due to the raw power in the engine.

Not in the stuff I've come across. I'm certainly not casting doubt on the P-47 -- it was a great plane and certainly would have served us better in Korea. I'm simply noting some of the arguments that came up and, apparently, led the AF to focus more on the F-51. Other than ground attack in Korea, the question was moot because both were gone within a year or two, superseded by jets.
 
In terms of close air support in Korea the Air Force would of been better sreved with either the F4-U or the AD-1 Spad in terms of prop a/c.
 
In terms of close air support in Korea the Air Force would of been better sreved with either the F4-U or the AD-1 Spad in terms of prop a/c.

I am wondering what if the USAF turned the P-47 into it's version of the AD-1 Skyraider? Think about it for a minute. The USN kept the Skyraider in frontline service into Vietnam and then the Air Force bought them and used them some as well. The F4-U debuted before the Hellcat and it outlived the Hellcat and it's postwar replacement the Bearcat.

My proposal is this: what if the Air Force decided it wanted to keep the P-47 as THE dedicated fighter-bomber after WWII. In keeping with the NIH (not invented here) / inter service rivalry attitude the USAF simply does not buy the Douglas aircraft but instead upgrades the Thunderbolt to carry more bombs/rockets. Or Republic makes it's version of the Skyraider. The F-51 gets phased out and the Thunderbolt hangs around after Korea. To justify its continued life the Air Force says the Thunderbolt is for forward deployment use from dirt airfields. Maybe they keep a squadron in South Korea in case the Reds come south again. It could also be stationed in Alaska. It can fly long and low patrols in the Aleutians. You could have the last Thunderbolts in Vietnam in the early days of the war serving with the Air Commandos.
 
Some problems with using the P-47 this way.

The P-47 is a more complicated plane, with it's turbocharger, than the Skyraider. The Thunderbolt would require more maintenance and be more expensive to operate. It also required longer runways than the Skyraider. (The F-84 and F-105 also required long runways. There's an old joke that went something like, "If they built a run all the way around the world, Republic would build a plane that would use all of it.")

One of the reasons the USAAF favored the P-51 over the P-47 or P-38 is cost. The Mustang was far less expensive to procure, as well as having a lower operating cost--unless shot in the radiatory.

I am wondering what if the USAF turned the P-47 into it's version of the AD-1 Skyraider? Think about it for a minute. The USN kept the Skyraider in frontline service into Vietnam and then the Air Force bought them and used them some as well. The F4-U debuted before the Hellcat and it outlived the Hellcat and it's postwar replacement the Bearcat.

My proposal is this: what if the Air Force decided it wanted to keep the P-47 as THE dedicated fighter-bomber after WWII. In keeping with the NIH (not invented here) / inter service rivalry attitude the USAF simply does not buy the Douglas aircraft but instead upgrades the Thunderbolt to carry more bombs/rockets. Or Republic makes it's version of the Skyraider. The F-51 gets phased out and the Thunderbolt hangs around after Korea. To justify its continued life the Air Force says the Thunderbolt is for forward deployment use from dirt airfields. Maybe they keep a squadron in South Korea in case the Reds come south again. It could also be stationed in Alaska. It can fly long and low patrols in the Aleutians. You could have the last Thunderbolts in Vietnam in the early days of the war serving with the Air Commandos.
 
If the Jug is kept as a close air support the R-2800's could of been switched over to the supercharged version as used in the F4-U and F6-F. I know the R-2800 production facility at Nash was re-opened in 1950/51. They had been building engines for the F6-F and the F4-U. Other than Nash were any of the other automotive companies that built the Double Wasp re-activated in the 1950s? As a close support aircraft it does not require the turbo -charger required for high altitude operation. In terms of being an interceptor the hand writing was on the wall by spring of '45. And the writing was jets. One reason the Mustang was kept on imo was truman's defense secretary and his cut to the bone reductions.
 
The P-47 was an aircraft designed around the installation of a turbo-supercharger. Building a revised airframe would be counter-intuitive, and the company was building F-84s as fighter-bombers, jets.

312 F4us were lost in Korea, mostly to ground fire, and Vought developed the AU-1 with added armor to protect the vulnerable Corsair's oil cooler. Not a large number, though.
 
Ideally, the 'A-47' would've have a turbo-compound engine, either R-2800, or R-3350, or (fanfare) R-4360; the P-72 was powered by the latest. Fowler flaps, thus reducing take-off and landing run, while improving low-speed handling. P-47N wing, but retaining the wing tips.
 
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