WI: The Holy See Moves to Imperial Germany

Delta Force

Banned
During the period in which the status of the Papal territories was uncertain, there were a few different ideas floating around on how to resolve the issue. Leonine City was one proposal offered the the Italian government, but there was another one in which the Holy See would have relocated to (soon to be) Imperial Germany. Pope Pius IX asked if Prussia would be willing to grant him asylum, and while Kaiser Wilhelm I was opposed to it because he thought it would corrupt the country and he would be forced to convert to Catholicism, Chancellor Bismarck advised in favor of it.

Assuming that the proposal went forward and the Holy See relocated to Imperial Germany (Bismarck mentions Cologne and Fulda as suitable cities), how would things change?
 
I don't suppose that they'll move St. Peter's Basilica with them to a nation that's almost entirely Protestant, and won't have a large minority until it unifies. In 1940 Germany was 1/3 Catholic. Interesting that 40.3% of Germans are Protestant today while 40.8% are Catholic.

Solely becuase he asked for temporary asylum doesn't mean that the Holy See will be in Prussia. When Hitler rises, he'll wanna kick out the Pope, and Italy under Mussolini would still let him back. I don't this would change much.
 

Delta Force

Banned
I don't suppose that they'll move St. Peter's Basilica with them to a nation that's almost entirely Protestant, and won't have a large minority until it unifies. In 1940 Germany was 1/3 Catholic. Interesting that 40.3% of Germans are Protestant today while 40.8% are Catholic.

Solely becuase he asked for temporary asylum doesn't mean that the Holy See will be in Prussia. When Hitler rises, he'll wanna kick out the Pope, and Italy under Mussolini would still let him back. I don't this would change much.

Hitler and Mussolini wouldn't have even been born yet in the 1870s, so they would effectively never exist. The implications of this for Germany during the Interwar Period or the Cold War would be interesting, but things would change quite a bit between the 1870s and then.
 
During the period in which the status of the Papal territories was uncertain, there were a few different ideas floating around on how to resolve the issue. Leonine City was one proposal offered the the Italian government, but there was another one in which the Holy See would have relocated to (soon to be) Imperial Germany. Pope Pius IX asked if Prussia would be willing to grant him asylum, and while Kaiser Wilhelm I was opposed to it because he thought it would corrupt the country and he would be forced to convert to Catholicism, Chancellor Bismarck advised in favor of it.

Assuming that the proposal went forward and the Holy See relocated to Imperial Germany (Bismarck mentions Cologne and Fulda as suitable cities), how would things change?

My god, it's like the man was 10 years old.
 

Delta Force

Banned
Would giving Sigmaringen over to the papacy be allowed?

I didn't know that there was a Catholic branch of Hohenzollerns, but I suppose that would be an interesting option. Was Karl Anton living in the palace in the early 1870s, or would it have been available for use?
 
I believe that Karl Anton was still using the castle, but he could probably be persuaded to vacate or share it in return for papal support of Leopold's ascertain to the Spanish throne. I was thinking that the principality of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen would be revived and the area serving as a weird autonomous county co-ruled by the Pope and Karl Anton and would sorta function like the Comtat Venaissin where the residents would not have to pay taxes or serve in the military.
 
Sigmaringen is a possibility, but what's wrong with somewhere in the Rhine Province? It's majority Catholic, with several cities and cathedrals important to Catholicism within it, after all.
 

RavenMM

Banned
The question fell roughly in the time of the french-prussian war, right?

I think giving the pope asylum in cologne would help to unify the catholics and protestants in germany sooner. The butterflys regarding the Kulturkampf would be very interesting.
 

Delta Force

Banned
I believe that Karl Anton was still using the castle, but he could probably be persuaded to vacate or share it in return for papal support of Leopold's ascertain to the Spanish throne. I was thinking that the principality of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen would be revived and the area serving as a weird autonomous county co-ruled by the Pope and Karl Anton and would sorta function like the Comtat Venaissin where the residents would not have to pay taxes or serve in the military.

Perhaps Bismarck could convince Wilhelm I by pointing that out as a potential advantage.

Sigmaringen is a possibility, but what's wrong with somewhere in the Rhine Province? It's majority Catholic, with several cities and cathedrals important to Catholicism within it, after all.

Perhaps there was a desire to keep the Pope in Southern Germany? The North-South divide is prominent in Germany, especially in Imperial Germany. Bavaria even retained certain special rights within the Empire.

The question fell roughly in the time of the french-prussian war, right?

I think giving the pope asylum in cologne would help to unify the catholics and protestants in germany sooner. The butterflys regarding the Kulturkampf would be very interesting.

It was around the time of the Franco-Prussian War. It seems it would have been a good move for helping to unify the new country and further increase its prestige, especially if Spain is ruled by a Hohenzollern.
 
Sigmaringen is a possibility, but what's wrong with somewhere in the Rhine Province? It's majority Catholic, with several cities and cathedrals important to Catholicism within it, after all.
It's mostly because the Rhine province is very prosperous and the presence of the Pope there would outrage Wilhelm due to his very anti-Catholic views. Sigmaringen is, on the contrary, is a peripheral at best and Wilhelm would be more likely to not get an aneurysm by being able to just look away and ignore anything that happens.
 
If the Papacy left Rome, it would lose massive credibility.

Remember the Pope is, by definition, Bishop of ROME. That's the whole source of his authority - Vicar of Peter and all that.

The Church remembers with horror the Schism and 'Babylonian Capitivity' (Avignon Papacy), and such a move would recreate the problem.
 
I don't suppose that they'll move St. Peter's Basilica with them to a nation that's almost entirely Protestant, and won't have a large minority until it unifies. In 1940 Germany was 1/3 Catholic. Interesting that 40.3% of Germans are Protestant today while 40.8% are Catholic.

Actually, Protestants and Catholics are each about 30% of the population today.

The proportionally greater decline in the Protestant population can be explained by the fact that much of the old Protestant heartland came under atheist Communist rule from 1945-90.
 
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