WI The Flying Tigers attacked Japan?

I write the former post before that you answered to my principal post here, so you have a copy of the report of ABC, in this case it seems that ABC report had some mistakes (not respect to recall but the data and the possible encounter seems impossible)

Originally posted by bard32
If you think I'm making the whole thing up, just come right out and say it, instead of shooting down everything I post here.

You have to calm down, this is a discussion forum and it is normal that the members of the board discuss about the threads and give sources to defend his positions, in this aspect simplily I was supporting with arguments the fact that it physically could not be possible that encounter.

I don´t think that you "are making the whole thing up", simplily it is easy to see that the route of carrier striking force made this impossible, is because this that my first supposition that it could be that you remembered bad some part of the report, in this case you have a copy (a thing that initially I did not know, I thought that you were making an exercise of memory), sorry to say this but ABC not made a good work of research, at least it should have explained at that report how a fleet that departed at 06 hours 26 november from Kuriles (at this is Tokyo Time, so in reality it is some hours later according to US time) could find Flying tigers transport ships the same 26 november, at least that the report explain that the Carrier Striking Force departed some days before of the 26 november and naturally this would be conspiracy theory and necessary to be proved by that report.

BTW: Could be CalBear and me have disagreed in some discussions about different themes but I should say you that he is probably the best expert in the board about Pacific War and one of the best respect to World War II military history and Cold War military history in the board so it is normal that when you put these threads it begin to stay nervous, he could use an overdosis of irony in some cases or even sarcasm but it is clear that he has a lot of knowledge about Pacific War, more than you, me and a lot of the members of the board, so you have to base in more than one source your threads or he will have a lot of reason in making a hard critic.
 

bard32

Banned
Exists such plan effectively, references: http://www.warbirdforum.com/elusive2.htm

Also in the same site it is indicated: " Some of the American planes and ground crews were already at sea when Japan closed out Roosevelt's plan by attacking U.S., British, and Dutch possession on December 8, 1941 (December 7 in Hawaii, east of the international date line)"

This is referred in the short biography in the same site about Claire Chennault in the section "Hot War" http://www.warbirdforum.com/clc.htm

Alan Armstrong has written a book about this plan "Preemptive Strike" there is some interesting information in his web in "Executive Summary": http://http://www.preemptivestrikethebook.com/8.html

As a curiosity he provides a link to Ah.com discussion forum as a proof of the interest in his book http://www.preemptivestrikethebook.com/7.html

See entry of september 13, 2006.

So, it is clear it seems that this plan existed.

The plan was named JB-355 according to Alan Armstrong not JB-357, in the same site it is mentioned the fact of the TV report in 1991 "The Joint Board Plan has remained an obscure and overlooked chapter in American history. Stone Phillips of ABC News on the 50th anniversary of Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1991, did a story on the Joint Board Plan, but confessed that he did not know whether the Japanese knew of the American plan."

mentioned in http://www.preemptivestrikethebook.com/index.html

This is the comproved facts, now the problem bard32 is your reference about that the Flying Tigers found Japanese Carrier Striking Force in route to Pearl Harbour at 26 november 1941, it seems impossible if you see the map

View attachment 47269


The Carrier Striking Force departed at 06 hours of 26 november from Hitokappu bay at Southern Kuriles islands and until 4 december the japanese fleet was ever above of 40 degrees Latitude North, so more or less in the same latitude that Hokkaido island, so the ships that transported the Flying tigers that departed from Hawaii according to you what direction had? in direction to China or in direction to Hokkaido? apart of what velocity had the ships, supervelocity? because as you can see it is impossible that at 26 november the Flying Tigers could find some ship of the Carrier Striking Force.

Also there is no reference in Internet (apart of this thread) to a possible encounter at sea between elements of the Flying Tiger and Carrier Striking Force at 26 november.

Also is not mentioned in the executive summary of Alan Armstrong about his book.

Apart naturally of the physical impossibility of such encounter as shown in the map.

I think that you are making memory of that TV report and confusing some parts of that report, it was december 1991 and now it is may 2008 so almost 17 years since that you watch that report.

Conclussion: It is not possible such encounter, the route of Carrier Striking Force made it impossible to encounter the Flying Tigers at 26 november.

Thanks for the info. Maybe I was mistaken. It might have been on December
4, 1941. The point is that they were several hundred miles away from each other when the ships were recalled.
 

CalBear

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This isn't according to me. I'm going by what I heard on 20/20 report right before the 50th anniversary of Pearl Harbor back in December of 1991. The
reporter doing the story on JB 357 said it. Not me. He said that when they were three days out they ran into the Japanese carriers on their way to Pearl Harbor, ran into the ships carrying the bomber pilots, but didn't make
contact. Tell me, do you believe the Pearl Harbor conspiracy theories? If you do, then you'd believe the Japanese carriers broke radio silence to report it back to Yamamoto. There's no evidence of that.

You heard it on a TV show 16 1/2 years ago. Yet you have seen nothing since (even on the POS History Channel), read nothing since, but still chose to state it as gospel.

You have to do better than that, at least in this forum, or you will be challenged.
 
:D:D:D:D

I've been reading too many asb threads lately, I thought the title was WI Flying Tigers attacked Japan!

If that were the case I'd Godzilla ;)
 
:D:D:D:D

I've been reading too many asb threads lately, I thought the title was WI Flying Tigers attacked Japan!

If that were the case I'd Godzilla ;)

I'm not sure what's more bizarre; that mental image, or bard32's idea of a good history source.
 
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