WI The Fifth Crusade Suceeds

The Fifth Crusade was the one that went to Egypt and got wiped out. But what if it, or another crusade aimed at Egypt, had actually succeeded in taking over the country? In particular:

1) There will probably be no more than a few thousand Crusaders to govern several million Egyptians, so where does the government apparatus and beauracracy all come from?

2) How much of Egypt's population is still Coptic Christian? Is it possible that the crusaders might ignore their theological differances with the Copts for the sake of having a large, loyal constituency to help them run the country?

3) How does the Copt issue ultimately pan out? What are the chances of A) The Crusader "King of Egypt" ultimately converting to Copticism, or B) A Uniate Coptic Church forming, and converting a substantial amount of the Coptic population.

4) How do the Crusaders treat the Muslim population? On the one hand, they've come to kill and convert infidels, but on the other hand, if they want Egypt to be governable they can't afford to alienate the Muslims, especially the Muslim elite.

5) How much of a chance does Crusader Egypt have of lasting? On the one hand, its going to have some of the same problems as the OTL Crusader states, but on the other hand, it has much more resources than the Levant, and natural barriers to separate it from other Muslim powers.
 
1) They, like the Crusaders who established the governments of the KoJ and the other Crusader states in the Levant, they would basically use the government apparatus and bureaucracy of the conquered Egyptians.

2) Either slight majority or a significant minority. The exact numbers are unknown though the Copts were more concentrated in Upper Egypt (the South). Lower Egypt was predominantly Muslim. And nope, they'll probably end up treating them badly and ostracize them. Maybe if this was an invasion by the Kingdom of Jerusalem, the Crusaders wouldn't treat them that badly since they were used to having Eastern Christians, Muslims and Jews in their kingdom.

3) Very little as long as the hypothetical Kingdom of Egypt remains dependent on a constant flow of men and supplies from Europe to sustain it. They won't convert to Coptic Christianity and alienate their allies. You need a lot of Crusaders to conquer, no less keep Egypt. Maybe not it's implausible.

4) As in the other Crusader states, they'll try expelling the Muslims from the cities or at least make them second class citizens. My idea is of the Crusaders adopting the idea of the Islamic jizya and apply it to non-Christians.

5) Depends on many things .

 
This could be a very bad thing for them in the long run. A major factor in the decline of the crusader states was the fourth crusade, the fact that some men who would've gone to the holy land instead went to holding onto byzantine territory was a bad thing for the crusader cause.
 
This could be a very bad thing for them in the long run. A major factor in the decline of the crusader states was the fourth crusade, the fact that some men who would've gone to the holy land instead went to holding onto byzantine territory was a bad thing for the crusader cause.

Which was already bad enough since there was the Reconquista in the Iberian peninsula and you have the Baltic Crusades in the far northeastern portions of Europe which diluted men and supplies from the Crusades in the Levant.
 
1) There will probably be no more than a few thousand Crusaders to govern several million Egyptians, so where does the government apparatus and beauracracy all come from?


3) How does the Copt issue ultimately pan out? What are the chances of A) The Crusader "King of Egypt" ultimately converting to Copticism, or B) A Uniate Coptic Church forming, and converting a substantial amount of the Coptic population.

4) How do the Crusaders treat the Muslim population? On the one hand, they've come to kill and convert infidels, but on the other hand, if they want Egypt to be governable they can't afford to alienate the Muslims, especially the Muslim elite.

5) How much of a chance does Crusader Egypt have of lasting? On the one hand, its going to have some of the same problems as the OTL Crusader states, but on the other hand, it has much more resources than the Levant, and natural barriers to separate it from other Muslim powers.

The Muslim elite would be killed off immediately. Why would Crusaders want to keep them around?

Egypt was governed by a small foreign born or foreign descended elite from the Ptolemies to King Farouk so governing millions of Egyptians would not be a problem in itself.

I think a very high proportion of Egyptians were still Christian but the Crusaders would have had problems with the Catholic clergy alienating and persecuting the Copts.

The first thing for the Crusaders would be to parcel out the land to their knights and create a landowning elite. Merchants from Venice and Genoa would handle the commerce alongside some Greeks.

I think the country would be easier to defend than Palestine and there would be more land to entice settlers and investment. It could survive better than either the OTL Crusader kingdoms or the Latin Empire of Greece. On the other hand I think it would have ultimately fallen to the Ottomans in the 16th Century.
 
Which was already bad enough since there was the Reconquista in the Iberian peninsula and you have the Baltic Crusades in the far northeastern portions of Europe which diluted men and supplies from the Crusades in the Levant.

Not necessary. Those two "flank" crusades were locally driven for most part ("Spanish" and "Germans"). It's not likely "Spanish" would commit large forces to Levant with arabs next door. Granted "Germans" did but most of Baltic crusades were after Fifth crusade. Spanish didn't play a big role in earlier crusades as is so they focusing on issues closer at home isn't a big issue for Levant.
 
I understand that at first the crusaders would be very intolerant of Eastern Christians, but is it possible that after a few generations they might mellow, and come to see the Copts as an ally against the Muslims?

Also, I mentioned it above-what are the chances of a Coptic Eastern Catholic church forming, and how successful might it be?
 
I understand that at first the crusaders would be very intolerant of Eastern Christians, but is it possible that after a few generations they might mellow, and come to see the Copts as an ally against the Muslims?

Also, I mentioned it above-what are the chances of a Coptic Eastern Catholic church forming, and how successful might it be?

That's how things eventually happened. The Crusaders who stayed, had families and their sons and grandsons were more tolerant of the non-Catholic Christians. I don't think it's possible in the short run. The Copts from what OTL has to tell us are a minority but are devoted to their faith, chances are that that the Crusaders eventually convert to Coptic Christianity.

And you also didn't take into account the deals that the Italian city state would get from this hypothetical Kingdom of Egypt. They would want autonomous trading quarters in their cities at the very least if the Crusaders ask on help from them.



 
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