WI: The Enterprise completes its five year mission (Star Trek survives for 5 seasons)

[dsp19]

Starfleet Intelligence in miniseries format also allows S. Epatha Merkerson to build her credibility as a solid actress before she goes to Law and Order. Instead of Peewee's Playhouse she gets a really strong, serious role as a lead actress when the show becomes a miniseries. Nichelle Nichols will only make cameos in the miniseries

Uhura either retires from Starfleet at the end of Season 5 or gets promoted to captain. The last season of SI will occur just after Star Trek IV ends. The previous four seasons were between TMP and TWOK

 

[JamesHunter]

In the next update the American reaction to Israel's actions in the West Bank will be very negative. I was actually doing a "WI there was a 5th Arab Israeli war" after 1973

It won't be as bad for Israel as if they tried it today (where outside of the Religious and alt right they have very little good will left due to decades of apartheid policies) but it will still be bad for them. Especially as supporting Isreal is more out of obligation and some religious stuff while the US actually needs the Arab oil powers.

 

[dsp19]

It won't be as bad for Israel as if they tried it today (where outside of the Religious and alt right they have very little good will left due to decades of apartheid policies) but it will still be bad for them. Especially as supporting Isreal is more out of obligation and some religious stuff while the US actually needs the Arab oil powers.

Yup, I'll basically telegraph what I'm going to do in the next update--the US ITTL will force Israel to give full citizenship to the Palestinians that remain in the country or they'll cut off support

 

[JamesHunter]

Yup, I'll basically telegraph what I'm going to do in the next update--the US ITTL will force Israel to give full citizenship to the Palestinians that remain in the country or they'll cut off support

And even admitting they have nukes would still mean that's the moment the entire Arab world dog-piles them. Well they're supposed to still be fairly pragmatic at this point so I assume they'll see that?

 

[dsp19]

And even admitting they have nukes would still mean that's the moment the entire Arab world dog-piles them. Well they're supposed to still be fairly pragmatic at this point so I assume they'll see that?

By 1986 it's pretty much an open secret that Israel has nukes. What will happen for sure ITTL is Iran accelerates its nuke program as a result of what's happened, whether Israel admits to nukes or not

 

[dsp19]

Also, keep in mind the events in the Middle East spiraled out of control ITTL because President Glenn didn't fully trust his Secretary of State Jimmy Carter, who said that the Israeli-Jordanian side deal cutting out the Palestinians would fail. President Glenn ITTL effectively said, "get me any peace deal you can," and didn't get a good one, and he is taking the hit domestically

 

[JamesHunter]

Also, keep in mind the events in the Middle East spiraled out of control ITTL because President Glenn didn't fully trust his Secretary of State Jimmy Carter, who said that the Israeli-Jordanian side deal cutting out the Palestinians would fail. President Glenn ITTL effectively said, "get me any peace deal you can," and didn't get a good one, and he is taking the hit domestically

Serious case of the opps there. Well it might not effect the mid-terms to much (its is the US after all) but that's some serious egg on America's face and a massive hit to its credibility.

 

[Ogrebear]

Genocide under any circumstances would be the end for Israel as they can't depend on US support due to the revulsion and anything from Western Europe would certainly be gone. Also going that route would lead to the final end of "He who fights monsters," and not even on their worst day have the Isreali's been prepared to go that route (outside of some very extreme nuts).

Who said anything about genocide? Israel just needs to deport everyone from the strip.

 

[dsp19]

Who said anything about genocide? Israel just needs to deport everyone from the strip.

The Gaza Strip belongs to Egypt as part of the recent peace deal ITTL

Israel will get stopped by the USA who doesn't support the policy at all

 

[Ogrebear]

Starfleet Intelligence in miniseries format also allows S. Epatha Merkerson to build her credibility as a solid actress before she goes to Law and Order. Instead of Peewee's Playhouse she gets a really strong, serious role as a lead actress when the show becomes a miniseries. Nichelle Nichols will only make cameos in the miniseries

Uhura either retires from Starfleet at the end of Season 5 or gets promoted to captain. The last season of SI will occur just after Star Trek IV ends. The previous four seasons were between TMP and TWOK

I could see Uhura as a Captain - she is still doing SI work, but not as an active Agent, more like information gatherer whilst doing std Starfleet work too. I do wonder if she would find it 'boring' though as being in SI?

Perhaps SI sends her recruits to train on her ship? Since she knows how to train, and what to watch out for if a recruit is going to 'go bad'.

Question is if Scotty Uhura's chief engineer and husband?

 

[dsp19]

I could see Uhura as a Captain - she is still doing SI work, but not as an active Agent, more like information gatherer whilst doing std Starfleet work too. I do wonder if she would find it 'boring' though as being in SI?

Perhaps SI sends her recruits to train on her ship? Since she knows how to train, and what to watch out for if a recruit is going to 'go bad'.

Question is if Scotty Uhura's chief engineer and husband?

Uhura will get a promotion to Captain at the end of Starfleet Intelligence and turn over control of her team to Lt. Commander Battles. It sets up what Star Trek V will be ITTL; a diplomatic conflict where there is a Vulcan secession movement and the Enterprise crew + Intelligence has to determine why the Vulcans are so interested in leaving the Federation. So we'll see S. Epatha Merkerson and Ron Perlman play some role in Star Trek V. By the events of Star Trek V the Enterprise-A will be a training and diplomatic ship with Kirk, Spock, Bones, and Scotty semi-retired while Uhura is doing office work in San Francisco, Sulu on Excelsior and Chekov as Sulu's second in command. The Constitution class is being phased out for the Excelsior class so the Enterprise-A (refitted Yorktown) is actually close to being decommissioned the moment Kirk assumes command at the end of Star Trek IV. At the outset of Star Trek V, Cartwright becomes Starfleet Commander and reinstates Kirk to a degree beyond his ceremonial rank and command given to him in Voyage Home.

Season 5 of Starfleet Intelligence is largely about how Lt. Com. Battles gets along with the rest of the team as Uhura is preparing her to take over the on-the-ground operations. Uhura's story arc is her conflict between Scotty (who she loves) and her Intelligence team (who she's been with for many years). Karlax will play a role in the rebellion among some of the Klingon colonies against the Empire's autocratic rule, while Marx debates all season whether she should return to Betazed or not.

I'm also going to tie up a lot of the Middle East issues in the next update due to how the USA will react to what became an out of control situation. The drama in Eastern Europe will continue and become an even bigger headache for the Glenn Administration.

 

[JamesHunter]

Who said anything about genocide? Israel just needs to deport everyone from the strip.

Mass deportation is genocide actually. It's considered "cultural genocide" to ethnicly cleanse a population of an area.

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

Who said anything about genocide? Israel just needs to deport everyone from the strip.

Mass deportation is genocide actually. It's considered "cultural genocide" to ethnicly cleanse a population of an area.

What he said. Combining this with your previous statements about “finishing the job”, it’s very hard to read this as anything but naked advocacy for genocide.

You are banned.

 

[dsp19]

What he said. Combining this with your previous statements about “finishing the job”, it’s very hard to read this as anything but naked advocacy for genocide.

You are banned.

I hope that my subject matter isn't too graphic for the board. If it is I will stop writing about world affairs ITTL and stick to pop culture. I seem to have created a pop culture utopia and a dystopia around it.

 

[JamesHunter]

I hope that my subject matter isn't too graphic for the board. If it is I will stop writing about world affairs ITTL and stick to pop culture. I seem to have created a pop culture utopia and a dystopia around it

There's a difference between having a genocide or war crime as a plot point and advocating for it in RL. Plus since 1980's Israel would not go that route and your not planning for them to do so I'd say its fine.

I'd remind you that things like "the Anglo-American Nazi War" are pretty grim but it's proceeding logically from the cause and effect of your POD. Even Arose from the Azure Main had a couple of genocides and a crucifixion so I think your okay. As long as the depiction shows it as a bad thing and preferably with the doers getting their just desserts for their crimes.

 

[dsp19]

There's a difference between having a genocide or war crime as a plot point and advocating for it in RL. Plus since 1980's Israel would not go that route and your not planning for them to do so I'd say its fine.

I'd remind you that things like "the Anglo-American Nazi War" are pretty grim but it's proceeding logically from the cause and effect of your POD. Even Arose from the Azure Main had a couple of genocides and a crucifixion so I think your okay. As long as the depiction shows it as a bad thing and preferably with the doers getting their just desserts for their crimes.

I obviously wouldn't advocate for a bloodier downfall of the Iron Curtain or a deportation from the West Bank. I think I write about those scenarios sometimes because history could have been very different and far more dystopian than it turned out. In fact I think it's a surprise when history turns out positive results, considering how brutal human nature can be.

I've read some of the AANW and that's incredibly grim. Almost didn't have the stomach to get through it all. The 1986 Arab-Israeli War ITTL and its resulting effects will have a logical conclusion and I think I can actually turn it enough to favor the Palestinians in the end if I choose because I'll create an American reaction that will do so/

But I think I enjoy pop culture a lot more than the awful events in world history. I know it's a lot easier to write about

 

[JamesHunter]

I obviously wouldn't advocate for a bloodier downfall of the Iron Curtain or a deportation from the West Bank. I think I write about those scenarios sometimes because history could have been very different and far more dystopian than it turned out. In fact I think it's a surprise when history turns out positive results, considering how brutal human nature can be.

I've read some of the AANW and that's incredibly grim. Almost didn't have the stomach to get through it all. The 1986 Arab-Israeli War ITTL and its resulting effects will have a logical conclusion and I think I can actually turn it enough to favor the Palestinians in the end if I choose because I'll create an American reaction that will do so

True. I mean a fairly close run war (that forces the US to remind the Israelis that they ultimately need the petrostates more than they need them so play nice) could easily have forced a real peace process before the younger nuttier generation got into power.

There is a bit of a window in the 70's and 80's to try and work things out (and which did lead to things like the Oslo accord's) but which was ultimately missed OTL. Then you get a generation who believe it's their "devine right" to have the West Bank and we all know where that leads.

 

[Denliner]

I hope that my subject matter isn't too graphic for the board. If it is I will stop writing about world affairs ITTL and stick to pop culture. I seem to have created a pop culture utopia and a dystopia around it.

Losing the political aspect will hurt the integrity of the timeline in the long run. Star Trek feeds on political commentary and it would be a real shame if we see stories in the movies or TNG that have no context from stuff like the latest Israel-Arab War or what's happening back home.

Plus it's clear that the United States is going to intervene on behalf of the Palestinians and try to prevent a genocide from happening, so it's not like it's a shitty dystopia anyways. Maybe it'll be the divergence that some Americans need to wean themselves off of the "Israel is always right and can do no wrong" discourse that's popular OTL.

Speaking of Israel, I wonder if alt-Bajorans will become a more belligerent and militaristic power in the timeline as a result of the butterflies. There were always hints of this IOTL but DS9 made them fairly sympathetic aside from villains like Winn Adami. Would be interesting to hear stories where the Bajorans were oppressed yet they have learned nothing from the occupation, doing it to some other alien race instead, prompting the Federation to respond like the United States did.

Uhura's story arc is her conflict between Scotty (who she loves) and her Intelligence team (who she's been with for many years). Karlax will play a role in the rebellion among some of the Klingon colonies against the Empire's autocratic rule, while Marx debates all season whether she should return to Betazed or not.

So glad that Uhura's love with Scotty gets an arc instead of being a minor thing that happens in the movies.

 

[dsp19]

Losing the political aspect will hurt the integrity of the timeline in the long run. Star Trek feeds on political commentary and it would be a real shame if we see stories in the movies or TNG that have no context from stuff like the latest Israel-Arab War or what's happening back home.

Plus it's clear that the United States is going to intervene on behalf of the Palestinians and try to prevent a genocide from happening, so it's not like it's a shitty dystopia anyways. Maybe it'll be the divergence that some Americans need to wean themselves off of the "Israel is always right and can do no wrong" discourse that's popular OTL.

Speaking of Israel, I wonder if alt-Bajorans will become a more belligerent and militaristic power in the timeline as a result of the butterflies. There were always hints of this IOTL but DS9 made them fairly sympathetic aside from villains like Winn Adami. Would be interesting to hear stories where the Bajorans were oppressed yet they have learned nothing from the occupation, doing it to some other alien race instead, prompting the Federation to respond like the United States did.


So glad that Uhura's love with Scotty gets an arc instead of being a minor thing that happens in the movies.

I included some pretty awful world events that were either worse ITTL or didn't happen IOTL. I guess stepping on the landmine that is the Middle East damaged me a bit.

--Longer Vietnam War (lasted until 1976 with full US involvement until 1975 ITTL)
--Czechoslovakian war of resistance against the USSR (1977-1982)
--Berlin Crisis of 1977 (US-USSR standoff)
--A longer economic stagnation in the USA (pretty much the entire 1970s)
--Andropov leads the Soviet Union from 1977-1983
--Gorbachev deposed by Gromyko
--Another Arab-Israeli war

The grittier reality ITTL allowed a "Starfleet Intelligence" idea to become a series and a very popular one. As for the Bajorans, I haven't gotten much into TNG yet (let alone DS9) but I could see them as more militaristic than OTL.

As for Uhura and Scotty, that will be a major part of Star Trek V. In fact, that movie will start with their marriage

The US will make its feelings known in the UN and through diplomatic back channels to Jerusalem. President John Glenn made some serious mistakes throughout the entire process and now he has to course correct. We will eventually get some sort of peace but it'll be different than OTL and perhaps the Palestinians make out better (because the plan is to give them equal rights within Israel and the West Bank which is not what is happening IRL). Basically, the cost of winning the West Bank means the US forces Israel to give the Palestinians citizenship

 

[Denliner]

I included some pretty awful world events that were either worse ITTL or didn't happen IOTL

The grittier reality ITTL allowed a "Starfleet Intelligence" to become a series and a very popular one. As for the Bajorans, I haven't gotten much into TNG yet (let alone DS9) but I could see them as more militaristic than OTL

Then Star Trek simply needs to be the light in the darkness again. Maybe the world will get better as a result?

Personally, I can see writers in Star Trek attempt to make TNG and future series more optimistic (though not utopian) in tone after Intelligence thoroughly satisfied their cravings for a darker and grittier entry into the franchise. I do like DS9's stories where the Federation's ideals were tested so if they were done in TNG then that would be even better.

The US will make its feelings known in the UN and through diplomatic back channels to Jerusalem. President John Glenn made some serious mistakes throughout the entire process and now he has to course correct. We will eventually get some sort of peace but it'll be different than OTL and perhaps the Palestinians make out better

Glenn is definitely going to be politically eaten alive for what happened in Israel but at least he is aware of his mistake and is willing to make up for it.

Interestingly, the Typhon Pact books do just that, because after Nemesis the Romulans begin to split, the Borg are gone, and everyone's scrambling to build up new alliances to fill the vaccum. It would be nice to see something similar happening with the other anti-Federation nations after Undiscovered.

The Tholians and the Romulans could be up to ally with each other against the Federation, perhaps as a counterbalance against the new Klingon-Federation alliance.