WI: The English-Prussian double marriage succeeds

[Elidor]

Let's say Colonel Hotham somehow gains King Frederick William's trust before the Emperor's agents do, and the the Prince of Wales becomes the double brother-in-law of the Prussian King.

We would have a different offspring to Frederick Prince of Wales than OTL's George III-- perhaps someone who can better manage the American revolution?

On the Prussian side of the equation, could we have Frederick the Great take more of an interest in his wife and produce offspring? Surely he would appreciate the English princess more than his OTL wife . We would have a totally different series of Prussian Kings a well.

Would this also mean the continuation of the Alliance? I love the image of Prussian regiments going head to head with American colonial militia. Curbstomp, much?

 

[Nivek]

A very unused POD

Well that is extremly Interesting because with that double marriage, the Hannover wil be in some way the dominant side of the Union(the Rise of the Hohenzolern was in few years thanks to both the fall of austria and rise of russia) and the fear of the Austria(one family dominated two electoral seat and have a lot of power both inside and outiside of the HRE)

And that is a nightmare for some British Politician(like Wadpole) because that is a threat to both the Borbouns and Austrias, and that means a lot of wars....A LOT ONES.

 

[Shevek23]

So, the ARW is not so much a Royalist curbstomp after all, what with Britain being bogged down in continental distractions?

But it might get massively butterflied, with Britain in constant wars so are the American colonies, and perhaps no one in Parliament or the Royal administration gets the notion that this is an opportune time to rein in the colonials, while the colonials are recruited for patriotic reasons and reasons of profit to engage in the wars as they generally did. Presumably Yankee privateers assist the Royal Navy in their dynastic objectives, raiding French or Spanish shipping as usual, and if Spain winds up on the wrong side then land forces from the colonies go a-raiding into Spanish America. There might be taxes imposed but there's a war on, always, so if American colonials get what they want (raiding, trading, and colonizing to the west) then no rebellion.

Eventually the American colonies would overrun their own reach on the American continent, and only naval recruitment or drafting Americans for European cannon fodder (or ventures into India etc) would serve the greater empire, but that too might be seen more as opportunity than oppression by the colonials. Meanwhile the expanded colonies would be that much better able to bear tax burdens and if they see the expenditures as being broadly in their own interest too they might let the constitutional matters continue to ride.

With companies, regiments, eventually whole armies of Colonials thrown into the fields of Europe under Prussian command, wouldn't the place of America in British politics rise as these forces multiply the power of the British/North German confederation on the Continent?

 

[Elidor]

Unbroken Chains

Didn't Britain see constant wars in that period anyway, even after the Prussians were let go? The only change here would be a dependable ally in all of those wars.

Britian was horribly isolated during ARW, Britain wouldn't be as isolated here, as Prussia and possibly the rest of Protestant Germany will support the British cause. Sure enough, Washington's boys defeated Hessian mercenaries, but what happens when he faces Prussian grenadiers?

von Steuben's fate will be of some interest here, considering he still goes to Paris and eventually to America.

 

[archaeogeek]

On the Prussian side of the equation, could we have Frederick the Great take more of an interest in his wife and produce offspring? Surely he would appreciate the English princess more than his OTL wife . We would have a totally different series of Prussian Kings a well.

ASB. He had no mistresses, didn't have sex with his wife. Let's be honest here.

And I very much doubt it would change the diplomatic isolation of a victory-sick Britain. Royal marriages rarely prevent wars. And if the ARW ends up involving Prussia anyway, it will not only take a continental scale, but potentially drag in more countries. Something Prussia has no intent to deal with, especially as the north eastern powers had more important matters to deal with in Poland.

 

[Valdemar II]

ASB. He had no mistresses, didn't have sex with his wife. Let's be honest here.

And I very much doubt it would change the diplomatic isolation of a victory-sick Britain. Royal marriages rarely prevent wars. And if the ARW ends up involving Prussia anyway, it will not only take a continental scale, but potentially drag in more countries. Something Prussia has no intent to deal with, especially as the north eastern powers had more important matters to deal with in Poland.

What we really need are a Prussian-British union, of course it would be a radical shift in the European power balance, Prussia are simply to powerful to be ignored as Hanover was, and we would likely see the Hohenzollern fight to get Hanover too. A Prussian-Hanovean state would have almost the same population as England and would have the same as UK if Poland still got partitioned. I doubt London would be able to wag that dog.

 

[Elidor]

ASB. He had no mistresses, didn't have sex with his wife. Let's be honest here.

And I very much doubt it would change the diplomatic isolation of a victory-sick Britain. Royal marriages rarely prevent wars. And if the ARW ends up involving Prussia anyway, it will not only take a continental scale, but potentially drag in more countries. Something Prussia has no intent to deal with, especially as the north eastern powers had more important matters to deal with in Poland.

Even if he was homosexual, it doesn't prevent him from having children in the interest of state. He found his OTL wife almost repulsive (eg. "madame has grown fatter", etc. etc. ), but since Princess Amelia would probably be better educated and more cosmopolitan than his OTL wife, he might find her palatable enough for the expedient of the state.

Wouldn't the fact that France might be dragged into another war with the German states deter them from supporting Americans? They wanted to screw Britian without too many shots being fired, this is not possible when a continental power still supports Britain. If the French still insist, it might hurry the French Revolution by a couple of decades. An interesting POD in itself.

At this point Russia has no ill will towards Prussia (or Britain for that matter), while Austria was sick of war. All things equal, they will still partition Poland with Prussia.

What are some other Butterflies?

 

[Elidor]

What we really need are a Prussian-British union, of course it would be a radical shift in the European power balance, Prussia are simply to powerful to be ignored as Hanover was, and we would likely see the Hohenzollern fight to get Hanover too. A Prussian-Hanovean state would have almost the same population as England and would have the same as UK if Poland still got partitioned. I doubt London would be able to wag that dog.

There is a timeline here dealing with such a situation, I think

I was called "Rise of the Griffin" with the Griffin being a clever way of representing England-Prussia (Lion + Eagle). I don't want to necrobump it, but it showed a lot of promise.

 

[archaeogeek]

Even if he was homosexual, it doesn't prevent him from having children in the interest of state. He found his OTL wife almost repulsive (eg. "madame has grown fatter", etc. etc. ), but since Princess Amelia would probably be better educated and more cosmopolitan than his OTL wife, he might find her palatable enough for the expedient of the state.

Elisabeth of Brunswick-Wölfenbüttel was not exactly an idiot, and I don't think he'd see a difference. He didn't IOTL and I don't see why he would when he has a litter of cousins to take over when he dies.

Wouldn't the fact that France might be dragged into another war with the German states deter them from supporting Americans? They wanted to screw Britian without too many shots being fired, this is not possible when a continental power still supports Britain. If the French still insist, it might hurry the French Revolution by a couple of decades. An interesting POD in itself.

Considering the french strategy involved engaging Britain absolutely everywhere while maintaining a home fleet strong enough to actually engage the Channel fleet, I don't see how it would stop France. That said onto your last point:

At this point Russia has no ill will towards Prussia (or Britain for that matter),

I laughed. No ill will? The rulers both gave their blessings to the king of France and the northern powers formed the first league of armed neutrality specifically against the United Kingdom in support of the Bourbon-Netherlands alliance.