WI the English decisively win the 3rd Anglo-Dutch War

Yes, the 'Rampjaar'/Disaster year was certainly the Netherlands' most threatened period. As the French army was stopped by the Waterline the only way for the Allied countries to decisively defeat the Republic was by sea. Thankfully the Dutch navy was at its absolute zenith and commanded by one of the finest naval commanders in world history: Michiel Adriaensz De Ruyter. If you get him killed early on, or even before the war (plenty of options) and the Republic is probably lost, maybe even through Orangist betrayal by Tromp.
 
If the third Anglo-Dutch war was lost by the Dutch, they probably would not be able to stand against France, meaning that the Dutch Republic would be destroyed. William III would be made leader of a small French puppet state. France would gain the Rhineborder and dominate Europe. No glorious revolution, so Britain probably turns into a absolute kingdom allied and to France, who probably ends up being the strongeste country in the world.
 
If the third Anglo-Dutch war was lost by the Dutch, they probably would not be able to stand against France, meaning that the Dutch Republic would be destroyed. William III would be made leader of a small French puppet state. France would gain the Rhineborder and dominate Europe. No glorious revolution, so Britain probably turns into a absolute kingdom allied and to France, who probably ends up being the strongeste country in the world.
Thinking about it, if the Republic is taken 'on the march' so to speak, this predates the coup of Willem III which will probably make him instated as a French puppet indeed. This doesn't need to butterfly away the Glorious Revolution in total though (if it would happen) it would be very different. Destroying the Republic will change the balance of power in Europe significantly, wouldn't this fire up the anti-Catholic sentiment in England even worse than OTL? And I really doubt that Willem III would stay a compliant French puppet for very long. I could see him going to England to head a OTL home grown rebellion or coup against James II.
 
Thinking about it, if the Republic is taken 'on the march' so to speak, this predates the coup of Willem III which will probably make him instated as a French puppet indeed. This doesn't need to butterfly away the Glorious Revolution in total though (if it would happen) it would be very different. Destroying the Republic will change the balance of power in Europe significantly, wouldn't this fire up the anti-Catholic sentiment in England even worse than OTL? And I really doubt that Willem III would stay a compliant French puppet for very long. I could see him going to England to head a OTL home grown rebellion or coup against James II.
Assuming of course that James II remains without a son during his brothers reign
 
And I really doubt that Willem III would stay a compliant French puppet for very long.
It depends on how France and England handle things. I think it is likely that French and English troops will be present on Dutch soil, just like there were Dutch troops in Dutch puppets. Also it would not surprise me that all of the Netherlands would be plundered, the colonies taken, the VOC and WIC disbanded and lots of rich Merchants fleeing to other countries in for example Germany or Scandinavia.
 
Assuming of course that James II remains without a son during his brothers reign
Well, maybe. This POD has the potential of reigniting the wars of Religion but now on English soil. Popish plot and all that. The Protestants might not care who is on charge, as long as it's a Protestant. Quite like OTL.

It depends on how France and England handle things. I think it is likely that French and English troops will be present on Dutch soil, just like there were Dutch troops in Dutch puppets. Also it would not surprise me that all of the Netherlands would be plundered, the colonies taken, the VOC and WIC disbanded and lots of rich Merchants fleeing to other countries in for example Germany or Scandinavia.
Oh I certainly agree. The Republic is game over that is for sure. Willem is still a Protestant Stuart though. He could well be the leader of a Protestant coup in England. Without bringing the Dutch army with him this time though I could see a Calvinist volunteer force joining him.
 
Well, maybe. This POD has the potential of reigniting the wars of Religion but now on English soil. Popish plot and all that. The Protestants might not care who is on charge, as long as it's a Protestant. Quite like OTL.



Oh I certainly agree. The Republic is game over that is for sure. Willem is still a Protestant Stuart though. He could well be the leader of a Protestant coup in England. Without bringing the Dutch army with him this time though I could see a Calvinist volunteer force joining him.
Indeed, though this is assuming a son of James and Mary of Modena would be raised Catholic if born during the reign of Charles II, I wouldn't be so sure of that.
 
Well, maybe. This POD has the potential of reigniting the wars of Religion but now on English soil. Popish plot and all that. The Protestants might not care who is on charge, as long as it's a Protestant. Quite like OTL.
I don't think you need a Catholic son of James, James had already de facto declared he was Catholic when he stepped down s Lord High Admiral. Ok a victorious war would hide some of the dissent but as soon as there is a chance of a Catholic acceding to the British throne there will be revolts. A civil war is inevitable - the question is whether James and / or is son can keep a lid on the rebellions or they spiral into a full blown civil war.
 
I don't think you need a Catholic son of James, James had already de facto declared he was Catholic when he stepped down s Lord High Admiral. Ok a victorious war would hide some of the dissent but as soon as there is a chance of a Catholic acceding to the British throne there will be revolts. A civil war is inevitable - the question is whether James and / or is son can keep a lid on the rebellions or they spiral into a full blown civil war.
But doesn't that assume that any son would be a Catholic? I highly doubt a son born during the reign of Charles II would be raised a Catholic.
 
But doesn't that assume that any son would be a Catholic? I highly doubt a son born during the reign of Charles II would be raised a Catholic.
If the Netherlands are vassalised to all intents by the French then it's highly likely Charles would feel empowered to introduce full religious tolerance of Catholics. In fact the French and his Catholic brother would insist. It's more than likely that James (II) will force his hand by declaring his conversion after such an act. There is no war the English can be aliies of the victorious France and remain as persecutors of the Catholic faith.
 
Wasn't the planned peace deal for this going to give a few bits of land to England?


How would this change things?

As to toleration of Catholics, how exactly does Charles get this by parliament? They rejected the (relatively) limited extension of toleration towards Catholics IOTL, replacing it with the first of the Test Acts.



James II tried to do the same, which was one of the grievances against him that triggered the "totally not an invasion by the Dutch, honest". Anti-Catholic feeling was very high during this period. The English establishment would *not* be happy with Charles openly declaring himself Catholic.
 
If the Netherlands are vassalised to all intents by the French then it's highly likely Charles would feel empowered to introduce full religious tolerance of Catholics. In fact the French and his Catholic brother would insist. It's more than likely that James (II) will force his hand by declaring his conversion after such an act. There is no war the English can be aliies of the victorious France and remain as persecutors of the Catholic faith.
So, is war the inevitable outcome of this? And if so, what's the betting Louis sends aid for Charles to help him defeat the enemies of the crown
 
So, is war the inevitable outcome of this? And if so, what's the betting Louis sends aid for Charles to help him defeat the enemies of the crown
War may be a bit strong but I would have though a rebellion in England and outright war with Scotland is probable. And yes there may be French brigades in English service just as there were English brigades in French service (Monmouth)
 
Wasn't the planned peace deal for this going to give a few bits of land to England?


How would this change things?

As to toleration of Catholics, how exactly does Charles get this by parliament? They rejected the (relatively) limited extension of toleration towards Catholics IOTL, replacing it with the first of the Test Acts.



James II tried to do the same, which was one of the grievances against him that triggered the "totally not an invasion by the Dutch, honest". Anti-Catholic feeling was very high during this period. The English establishment would *not* be happy with Charles openly declaring himself Catholic.
Test act initially did not apply to peers of the realm and even when amended did not apply to the King.

How powerful Parliament would be against a victorious King is questionable - the Test Act may never get passed.
 
War may be a bit strong but I would have though a rebellion in England and outright war with Scotland is probable. And yes there may be French brigades in English service just as there were English brigades in French service (Monmouth)
I'm tempted to do something on this you know.
 
What terms exactly was France going to lay out for the Dutch? The Spanish Netherlands are in the way right, how much land can France feasibly take? And while they French may be able to keep tabs on their puppet I don't think they can stop all the merchants and companies of Amsterdam from making commitments with the Habsburgs or something for aid in the short term, to be repaid in the long.

Either way it does screw up the Glorious Revolution sequence in England, but... there's other Protestant countries with big navies, like Denmark and Sweden. Imagine if all this ends with the spectacle of a new King Canute, that'll give the satirists something to write about.
 
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What terms exactly was France going to lay out for the Dutch? The Spanish Netherlands are in the way right, how much land can France feasibly take? And while they French may be able to keep tabs on their puppet I don't think they can stop all the merchants and companies of Amsterdam from making commitments with the Habsburgs or something for aid in the short term, to be repaid in the long.

Either way it does screw up the Glorious Revolution sequence in England, but... there's other Protestant countries with big navies, like Denmark and Sweden. Imagine if all this ends with the spectacle of a new King Canute, that'll give the satirists something to write about.
Not sure Denmark would get involved, given that we might butterfly away a marriage to Prince George here for Princess Anne.
 
You've also potentially butterflied the marriage of William and Mary, or at least severely modified its course. Perhaps to the extent of having children result.
 
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