WI The Dutch Spoke German

Note that the title is a gross simplification. After what was probably the sixth discussion on the subject with Susano, I'd figured that this ould indeed, make a good TL, as well as one that would prove somewhat fun to make.

My WI here is that, not only does the High German consonant shift spread further, the Low Franconians do not undergo their own language shifts and instead adopt the High German ones. Effectually, this would render Dutch a slightly off German accent, turns Low German into a very rural, probably non-existant regional language, and would seriously hamper Dutch national feelings about a millenium later.

It does probably require more than this for the Netherlands to be an integral part of Germany by 1900, but I find it so interesting that I'll be willing to install later POD's to accomplish that.

Anyone got any ideas on how to make the Netherlands a nearly fully integrated part of Germany (regional feelings allowed)?
 

Redbeard

Banned
Note that the title is a gross simplification. After what was probably the sixth discussion on the subject with Susano, I'd figured that this ould indeed, make a good TL, as well as one that would prove somewhat fun to make.

My WI here is that, not only does the High German consonant shift spread further, the Low Franconians do not undergo their own language shifts and instead adopt the High German ones. Effectually, this would render Dutch a slightly off German accent, turns Low German into a very rural, probably non-existant regional language, and would seriously hamper Dutch national feelings about a millenium later.

It does probably require more than this for the Netherlands to be an integral part of Germany by 1900, but I find it so interesting that I'll be willing to install later POD's to accomplish that.

Anyone got any ideas on how to make the Netherlands a nearly fully integrated part of Germany (regional feelings allowed)?


If the Netherlands somehow are inherited/conquered by the Wienna Habsburg Emperors and stay inside the HRE for some centuries, I guess they to a larger degree will share a common fate and development with Germany.

BTW isn't "Dutch" an Anglo-Saxon misspelling of the German word for German - "Deutsch" ?

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
BTW isn't "Dutch" an Anglo-Saxon misspelling of the German word for German - "Deutsch" ?
Not a misspelling, it's just the way the word evolved. And so did it's meaning; Dutch came to mean pertaining the Netherlands, instead of what 'German' replaced. It's also confused because there was no real political difference between 500 and 1000 BC (everything was HRE back then).
The lingual change helps somewhat, but I'm a bit doubtful in which way a Hapsburg Netherlands will work out.

Filips II, King of Spain, nephew of the Holy Roman Emperor and Lord of the Netherlands only used to place for prestige and taxation, and I'm not sure whether his uncle Ferdinand would have acted differently.
 
It's also confused because there was no real political difference between 500 and 1000 BC (everything was HRE back then).

That statement makes no sense even if you put AD or CE after those dates. The Holy Roman Empire (at least the one that lasted until 1806) was founded by Otto I in 962.

When would the POD have to take place?
 
That statement makes no sense even if you put AD or CE after those dates. The Holy Roman Empire (at least the one that lasted until 1806) was founded by Otto I in 962.

When would the POD have to take place?
Sorry I said HRE there. My mind was way off. It wouldn't matter that much, though, as it's OTL, and it would be very alike to OTL until the POD's start raining down.
THe POD for the lingual change would have to be the entire fourth and fifth centuries, as that took some time. The POD for the Netherlands to still be part requires something entirely different; we could simply have it continue to be part of the HRE after the abdication of Charles V, although that might also lead to an eventual independence.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Most likely this will result in them using Luther German bible instead of making their own in Dutch, this will raise the chance they become Lutheran, but more impotant the use of the German bible will ensure that Standard German becomes the languages of literary people, and that will ensure the Dutch stay German (of course this is in a world without butterflies).
 
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