WI the Dutch Navy acquired capital ships

The Dutch government planned to acquire four dreadnoughts in 1913 (the original planwas to acquire nine) and was on the verge of signing the expansion into law before the start of WW1. The government shelved the plan at the start of the war, since the ships would have to be ordered abroad. After the war the plan was considered too expensive and unneeded.

History repeated itself shortly before the start of WW2. The government, fearing the growing Japanese agressiob planned to build three battlecruisers to defend the East Indies. The reasoning was that in case of war all Japanese capital ships would be tied down fighting the Royal Navy and US Navy and that the battlecruisers would be able to fend of the Japanese cruisers escorting an invasion fleet. The Netherlands did design ships based on the Scharnhorst-class, but the invasion of the Netherlands ended any chance of actually building the ships.

Now assume that the government would push through the expansion plan after WW1:

- What would be the best course to take? Ordering ships abroad or attempting to design and build ships themselves?

- How many of them could a nation the size of the Netherlands reasonably maintain?

- Could such ships have delayed the Japanese invasion of the East Indies?

- Could they have served in any useful role during WW2, assuming some of them survive the battle for the Dutch East Indies?
 
Considering the failure of the much larger British Pacific fleet in containing Japaneses expansion, my guess is one or two more Dutch capital ships wouldn't have made a difference. They likely would have ended up attached to British or American squadrons down the road anyway after the Netherlands was conquered.

As to the best way to use them, if they were to remain in East Asia they would likely have been attached to the RN or possibly the RAN. God help them if they are attached to Force Z as they could have ended up being target practice for Japanese carriers. If they could be transferred to the Mediterranean they could certainly have been useful there as it was one of the few theaters where battleships actually played an important offensive role beyond just shore bombardment and the RN was initially outgunned there (until they sunk much of the Italian fleet at anchor). Of course later in the war these ships could have served in shore bombardment for the allied landings in Europe.

As to whether the Netherlands had the money for this project, I don't really know the state of their finances. I would assume however, that as invasion became an increasing probability the Dutch government would have diverted most of its military funding towards its land defense rather than investing in capital ships.
 
instead of a battlecruiser, i think a carrier would have been a lot more practical in the indies

for info, this is the battlecruiser they were contemplating:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_1047_battlecruiser

Hi there,

Aircraft carriers were not so much an asset in the Dutch East Indies, as might seem so, as the archipello already was dotted with thousands of islands and a large number of airfields everywhere, which could act as fixed carreirs in case of war. An aircraft carrier needs space to operate in, which wa not so much available in the DEI's, so a better sollution would jave been to increase the number of landingstrips and airfields more, with a larger number of aircraft available to shuttle in between them, located at the places they were needed most.
 
Did the dutch have the pilots capable of operating carrier based aircraft? For that matter did they even have a naval aviation fighter or bomber? In reality operating a carrier is a bigger undertaking then a battle-cruiser or battleship because the technical and skill requirements required are pretty unique compared to pretty much every other naval vessel.
 

CalBear

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Massive waste of time and money.

If the Dutch fleet had the money to build one super-dreadnought they could have instead built three CL and 3-5 DD.

The best thing the Netherlands fleet could have purchased were subs, both coast and long endurance, along with a set of cruisers/destroyers/heavy frigates to defend the DEI. Subs would have made the IJN effort drastically more difficult.

The Netherlands themselves were, to be frank, indefensible short of some 1939 version of the IDF mixed with Switzerland. Even then you have a country with a population of under 9 million sharing a 100+ mile long border and no worthwhile strategic depth with a potential opponent with a population of 87 million (again not unlike Israel), but without a massive tech advantage. Best the Dutch military could hope for was to be threshkeen.
 

Driftless

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Did the dutch have the pilots capable of operating carrier based aircraft? For that matter did they even have a naval aviation fighter or bomber? In reality operating a carrier is a bigger undertaking then a battle-cruiser or battleship because the technical and skill requirements required are pretty unique compared to pretty much every other naval vessel.

I'm doubtful the Dutch had any pilots with carrier experience. However, they had some acceptable modern planes (available and in the pipeline) that could have filled a coastal command type of role.

Without the Dutch having benefit of foresight about the impact of Japanese naval aviation, I go back and forth about what would have been the better surface navy options for the DEI. If they're assuming that they're likely going to ally with the UK/France against Japan, then perhaps a Scharnhorst-esque BC would be useful. On the other hand, the DEI was an archipelago of innumerable islands where more hulls would provide greater flexibility. Even without having the foresight on just how good Japanese naval aviation was back in the mid thirties, perhaps a few more heavy & light cruisiers would have been a better "bang for the guilders"
 
Did the dutch have the pilots capable of operating carrier based aircraft? For that matter did they even have a naval aviation fighter or bomber? In reality operating a carrier is a bigger undertaking then a battle-cruiser or battleship because the technical and skill requirements required are pretty unique compared to pretty much every other naval vessel.

To answer your questiinThe DEI-branch of the Naval Aviation Service was well trained and decently equipped. They had 25 Catalina seaplanes and about an equal number of Dornier seaplanes.

History showed that carriers are undoubtedly superior to the battleship. It took ww2 to prove this. In the interbellum carriers where still an untested new form of ship a nation as the Netherlands would't spend its cash on. As far as the Admiralty expected, the battleship and battlecruiser where there to stay.
 
Massive waste of time and money.

If the Dutch fleet had the money to build one super-dreadnought they could have instead built three CL and 3-5 DD.

The best thing the Netherlands fleet could have purchased were subs, both coast and long endurance, along with a set of cruisers/destroyers/heavy frigates to defend the DEI. Subs would have made the IJN effort drastically more difficult.

The Netherlands themselves were, to be frank, indefensible short of some 1939 version of the IDF mixed with Switzerland. Even then you have a country with a population of under 9 million sharing a 100+ mile long border and no worthwhile strategic depth with a potential opponent with a population of 87 million (again not unlike Israel), but without a massive tech advantage. Best the Dutch military could hope for was to be threshkeen.

I agree that concentrating on cruiser and submarines would have been the wiser choice. At the start of WW2 the navy only had three light cruisers, two of them WW1 vintage. The submarines where excellent though, being some of the first to implement a snorkel. The problem was that both the Navy and the colonial administration of the DEI where adamant about not settling for anything less than battlecruisers. The Navy was convinced that the Japanese would only send their cruisers to the DEI and that a few battlecruisers would serve as a proper deterrent. We know better now.

This might not be the topic to discuss the topic to discuss the defence of the Netherlands against the German invasion (which was almost equal parts valiant and laughable) but I agree that there was no question that the defence would fail eventually.
 
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