WI: the Dutch are more successful colonially?

The Dutch had some attempts at colonies, but they failed on most of them except for Suriname and Indonesia, they had a colony in north america around new York for a few years before losing it, what if they hadn't and had gone on to colonise more of north and south america?
 
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Honestly a lot of the Dutch's problem begin and end with the British. New Amsterdam and Cape Colony? Both seized by the Brits. Master of the seas? In comes the British Royal Navy. Quite simply the key to Dutch colonial success is continued Naval Success with the Anglo-Dutch wars (something that really isn't that implausible.
 
So the way to make the Dutch more successful colonially is to prevent British dominance over the seas?, that would definitely butterfly.
And what would the most likely POD to make this happen be?
 
A big part is the lack of manpower in the home provinces. Sure, the Netherlands were agriculturally very productive, and manpower shortages could be mitigated by recruiting from the north German cities and the southern Netherlands. The Netherlands never could get the settlement colonialism going, and chose a system of trading posts.

Let us assume that the Netherlands stayed United during the 80yw and they secede as the 17 provinces, but still as part of the holy roman empire. It is very well possible that this becomes a major player in the north west, essentially controlling the imperial trade with the new world and controlling the Rhine estuary.

Now, if we follow the original expansion pattern, we see colonies starting around Manhattan and the northern coast of Brazil. On the African continent, the cape becomes a stop in the "oostvaart". The Dutch empire, more powerful than OTL, would be able to compete with the British east asia company. OTL trading posts and colonies lost to the british would stay Dutch and colonies that didn't succeed OTL might in TTL.

If we wank the Dutch a bit, the Dutch empire could span all the way from the Indus, across Indonesia, to Taiwan and nagasaki in the north and Australia in the south.

Internally, this would be a combined system of settlement colonies in rather empty areas (Cape, Australia) to support the long Long haul spice trade, and trade posts and manufactories in the more densely populated areas like the Indies and Taiwan.

The Dutch are (sometimes) known for their tolerance, if it meant for more trading opportunities (Nagasaki), while they could be absolutely vicious in Indonesia, just to farm more spice. I don't see the colonial empire collapsing from within, only when the home provinces in Europe are threatened, then collapse could happen. With France on the doorstep, that is a distinct possibility, and the Netherlands better be aligned to a great power that could support them against France in Europe.

Ofc, this would be a massive change also in the home provinces, especially concerning the moedernegotie with the baltics and the trade with Italy. Politically, either a republic or a very hands off monarchy regarding economics.
 
A big part is the lack of manpower in the home provinces. Sure, the Netherlands were agriculturally very productive, and manpower shortages could be mitigated by recruiting from the north German cities and the southern Netherlands. The Netherlands never could get the settlement colonialism going, and chose a system of trading posts.

Let us assume that the Netherlands stayed United during the 80yw and they secede as the 17 provinces, but still as part of the holy roman empire. It is very well possible that this becomes a major player in the north west, essentially controlling the imperial trade with the new world and controlling the Rhine estuary.

Now, if we follow the original expansion pattern, we see colonies starting around Manhattan and the northern coast of Brazil. On the African continent, the cape becomes a stop in the "oostvaart". The Dutch empire, more powerful than OTL, would be able to compete with the British east asia company. OTL trading posts and colonies lost to the british would stay Dutch and colonies that didn't succeed OTL might in TTL.

If we wank the Dutch a bit, the Dutch empire could span all the way from the Indus, across Indonesia, to Taiwan and nagasaki in the north and Australia in the south.

Internally, this would be a combined system of settlement colonies in rather empty areas (Cape, Australia) to support the long Long haul spice trade, and trade posts and manufactories in the more densely populated areas like the Indies and Taiwan.

The Dutch are (sometimes) known for their tolerance, if it meant for more trading opportunities (Nagasaki), while they could be absolutely vicious in Indonesia, just to farm more spice. I don't see the colonial empire collapsing from within, only when the home provinces in Europe are threatened, then collapse could happen. With France on the doorstep, that is a distinct possibility, and the Netherlands better be aligned to a great power that could support them against France in Europe.

Ofc, this would be a massive change also in the home provinces, especially concerning the moedernegotie with the baltics and the trade with Italy. Politically, either a republic or a very hands off monarchy regarding economics.

So the Dutch colonial empire would consist of a couple moderate colonies in north and south america, trading posts of economic importance scattered across asia, all of indonesia (including malaya i assume) and south africa(expanding beyond the cape i assume)?
 
Solve the Dutch manpower problem by getting them a very early settler colony in a 'healthy' clime. My best bet is an earlier Cape Colony. This makes them less Europe centered, but it's the only way a small European power can have a big colonial empire besides being perpetually allied to Spain and England (looking at YOU, Portugal).
 
So the Dutch colonial empire would consist of a couple moderate colonies in north and south america, trading posts of economic importance scattered across asia, all of indonesia (including malaya i assume) and south africa(expanding beyond the cape i assume)?
It really depends on the situation at home. If you go for max-wanking, some colonies in north america, some in south america, the cape with an ever-expanding supporting region of boers who farm and raise cattle. Australia as a "second cape" with cattle and other farmers making a living there and creating a manpower-pool and supporting base close to the colonies. Ceylon, indonesia and taiwan would be fully controlled "Win-gewesten" (exploitation colonies). Depending on their chances in India and the arabian peninsula you might see something similar to what the british did there.

If you want to really really wank it, the best series of POD's is the following: The Pacification of Ghent styles the 17 provinces as an autonomous region in the holy roman empire, and asks the emperor to intervene in the 80yw. The emperor accepts and there is some trading around with the spanish and the rest of the empire but the result is as follows: The Netherlands become an autonomous region within the HRE, and in exchange the spanish get the titular authority of the north of Italy. The Empire reforms into a loose confederacy, with the Reichstag holding most of the power, but the emperor can veto and dissolve the Reichstag at his will. In the manner of the Dutch duchies (Blijde inkomst, Keures), a constitutional charter is signed for the whole empire, granting major rights and freedoms for the entire reich, while also granting power to the Emperor to protect the integrity and the internal peace of the empire. It would also cement the peace of Augsburg, and expand it to all protestant denominations.

This would create the Netherlands as a quasi-independant state, but defended by the HRE, while having a market for their exotic goods and a massive manpower pool (all those germans that dont have the same faith as their lord need to go somewhere dont they?). Following the above mentioned manner of expansion, I see a "Dutch" empire with major settlements on the NA east coast, exploitation colonies in the carribean and on the northern coast of south america. Trade posts would litter the west coast of africa, until the cape as major stop in the eastern trade. Rounding the cape, the coasts of the Indian ocean would be dotted by trade posts, picking in on the old spice road routes from the south. The dominions in India would expand like the british did, while Indonesia and other possessions would form a good source of spices. Australia would become another settlement colony.

These riches, and the possibility of an industrial revolution in the southern netherlands, could be a good jumping board in unifying the HRE in the late 19th century.
Also this is all assuming the french are incompetent. And that the 30yw is averted for the most part. Still, it is a massive wank.
 
Would be fascinating seeing the Dutch end up gaining all of the Guyanas (including Spanish Guyana in what is now OTL Venezuela) as well as other colonies from the Portuguese, such as parts of Brazil near the Guyanas (mainly the Guiana shield or up to the north side of the Amazon River and the Rio Negro tributary to even the east side of the Orinoco via the Casiquiare canal / river - for a more natural border as opposed to Dutch Brazil) as well as parts of Angola and Mozambique.

Edit - The following M-BAM map is roughly how a ATL Dutch Guyana would look in such a scenario.
 

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What would the effects of a (comparably) more powerful dutch empire have on Europe, how would this affect relations with other countries, considering they own quite a few valuable colonies.

What would their colonies be like after independence, and when would they gain it.
i'm particularly interested in what a Dutch north america would be like and its relations with surrounding nations.
 
Could the Dutch language become the main language* in Indonesia similar to Spanish in Central America?

*The language with the largest number of speakers.
 
Could the Dutch language become the main language* in Indonesia similar to Spanish in Central America?

*The language with the largest number of speakers.
Wasn't Indonesia less of a settlement colony and more of a colony for resources? i don't think they did much actual European settlement there
 
Wasn't Indonesia less of a settlement colony and more of a colony for resources? i don't think they did much actual European settlement there
Do you need much European settlement for Dutch or a Dutch derived langauge, to become the most spoken language in the area of Indonesia?
 
Do you need much European settlement for Dutch or a Dutch derived langauge, to become the most spoken language in the area of Indonesia?
Not necessarily, but then that would require Dutch education to the natives in some form, educating the natives of indonesia, which i believe they used to harvest spice against their will, might not be the best decision for the Dutch.
 
Do you need much European settlement for Dutch or a Dutch derived langauge, to become the most spoken language in the area of Indonesia?
This requires so much money more to education than the Dutch wanted to spend. Malayan already functioned as a Lingua Franca and as the greatest part of the population were living on Java this was an acceptable solution.
 
Not necessarily, but then that would require Dutch education to the natives in some form, educating the natives of indonesia, which i believe they used to harvest spice against their will, might not be the best decision for the Dutch.
The dessa schools set up in the 19th century were using Malayan. Only higher education was in dutch, notably law.
 
This requires so much money more to education than the Dutch wanted to spend. Malayan already functioned as a Lingua Franca and as the greatest part of the population were living on Java this was an acceptable solution.
Yep, And if they spend too much effort on trying to Dutchifize Indonesia then their other colonies which they actually could Dutchifize would likely be neglected, not to mention the money problems they'd get from doing it.
 
Would be fascinating seeing the Dutch end up gaining all of the Guyanas (including Spanish Guyana in what is now OTL Venezuela) as well as other colonies from the Portuguese, such as parts of Brazil near the Guyanas (mainly the Guiana shield or up to the north side of the Amazon River and the Rio Negro tributary to even the east side of the Orinoco via the Casiquiare canal / river - for a more natural border as opposed to Dutch Brazil) as well as parts of Angola and Mozambique.

Edit - The following M-BAM map is roughly how a ATL Dutch Guyana would look in such a scenario.
that's a large Dutch Guyana
i'm curious about the Caribbean, with such a large and close Guyanan colony along with their existing north american colonies, i think it would be very possible for the dutch to get large parts of the south and eastern Caribbean. Maybe Jamaica, most of the Antilles and if they play their cards right Puerto Rico?
 
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