WI: The Duke of Anjou had an heir?

[Razgriz 2K9]

When Charles IV, The Duke of Anjou and Count of Provence (1480-1481) died, he willed his inheritance, the Counties of Provence, Guise, Maine and Mortain as well as the Duchy of Anjou to his cousin, the French King at the time, Louis XI de Valois.

However, what if Charles had an heir, would Louis XI just lay claim to Provence anyway? Would Charles' successors try to make an active claim to the Neapolitan throne? And would it lead to an Italian Wars as it was in the OTL?

 

[kasumigenx]

When Charles IV, The Duke of Anjou and Count of Provence (1480-1481) died, he willed his inheritance, the Counties of Provence, Guise, Maine and Mortain as well as the Duchy of Anjou to his cousin, the French King at the time, Louis XI de Valois.

However, what if Charles had an heir, would Louis XI just lay claim to Provence anyway? Would Charles' successors try to make an active claim to the Neapolitan throne? And would it lead to an Italian Wars as it was in the OTL?

I think he could marry someone like La Beltraneja or some other heiresses.

 

[Razgriz 2K9]

It's plausible if Charles married someone else, but he already married himself to Joan of Lorraine, who might have been able to produce a capable heir.

Even if he married Joanna la Belraneja, he would only entangle himself into an unnecessary secession war with Castile.

 

[kasumigenx]

It's plausible if Charles married someone else, but he already married himself to Joan of Lorraine, who might have been able to produce a capable heir.

Even if he married Joanna la Belraneja, he would only entangle himself into an unnecessary secession war with Castile.

I think he needs to marry someone who is young and fertile..there are many heiresses with such characteristics, I think he can marry a Neapolitan Trastamara or a Sicilian noblewoman if he lives a little longer.

 

[Vitruvius]

Charles IV did have an heir of sorts, in the form of Yolande of Lorraine, daughter of Rene I, his uncle from whom he received Anjou and Provence in the first place. After the death of his grandson Nicholas in 1473 Rene made a will that left Bar to Yolande and Provence and Anjou to Charles. Louis XI, opportunistic as ever, invaded Anjou claiming that as a son of Rene I's sister Marie he was heir to Anjou. He later 'compromised' by compelling Rene to amend his will such that he would be succeeded by Charles and Charles would be succeeded by Louis XI. By this act Louis XI ensured that Yolande would have no claim to Provence even though she was the daughter of its current Count (who had no other living descendents) and salic law had never been applicable there. So he delayed acquiring Anjou in favor of securing his rights to Provence as well. Louis also attempted to dispute the Duchy of Bar (a portion, the Barrois-Mouvant, was a French fief) with Yolande but that was at least salvaged for her son, OTL's Rene II of Lorraine.

So to answer your questions Charles' marriage OTL was somewhat inevitable as an alliance between the houses of Anjou and Vaudemont (both potentially heirs to Rene I) as Yolande's marriage had been a generation earlier. And even if he did have an heir from that marriage Louis XI would still intervene as he already had proven himself willing to invade to press his rights as heir Charles' rights. And even if Charles' heir could establish himself I'm not sure about Naples. Louis XI and/or Charles VIII can still lay claim to it by way of Marie of Anjou and OTL Charles VIII prevented Rene II from heading to Italy to press his claim (via his mother Yolande) forcing the later to recognize the superiority of his (Charles VIII's) claim to Naples via Charles IV's will and his grandmother Marie d'Anjou.

Besides both Rene II, his son John II and his grandson Nicholas all made attempts at either Naples or Aragon. None of which came to fruition. Provence proved an insufficient power base and the hold of the Trastamara in those realms too strong. With the French King menacing him Charles IV's heir isn't likely to experience any greater success.

 

[Razgriz 2K9]

So long story short, no matter how you look at it, Provence would be a part of France...

That would make sense, even if Charles IV's heir became the Count of Provence, they would only last a little longer than in the OTL, but not by much.

 

[Vitruvius]

So long story short, no matter how you look at it, Provence would be a part of France...

That would make sense, even if Charles IV's heir became the Count of Provence, they would only last a little longer than in the OTL, but not by much.

Probably, though they could actually last a while, albeit essentially as French vassals.

Best case scenario: Assuming Charles IV has an heir and then still dies in 1481 his son will be a minor. Louis XI is still around so even if he doesn't outright claim Anjou he'll occupy it and probably send in troops to Provence so he can 'serve as regent' for the young Count. Its possible said heir recovers some freedom of movement after he comes of age and Louis is dead but Anjou is probably a lost cause and Provence is definitively in the French sphere, a de facto fief. Meaning that a Provencal Italian campaign is out of the question though he'll probably be required to contribute troops to Charles VIII's invasion. Thus the near term affects, namely on the Italian Wars, may not be as significant.

Long term, best case scenario assuming France still develops aprox as OTL, Provence limps along like Lorraine did, clinging to independence on the periphery of France, constantly occupied for long periods of time but ultimately at some point, be it a few decades or a few centuries, its finally incorporated into France. Alternately if it survives the long term affects could be enough to set France on a different course leaving it too weak to absorb Provence. Or Provence could just end up as someone else's plaything perhaps a Spanish client. Its certainly possible when you're projecting several centuries out.

 

[kasumigenx]

Probably, though they could actually last a while, albeit essentially as French vassals.

Best case scenario: Assuming Charles IV has an heir and then still dies in 1481 his son will be a minor. Louis XI is still around so even if he doesn't outright claim Anjou he'll occupy it and probably send in troops to Provence so he can 'serve as regent' for the young Count. Its possible said heir recovers some freedom of movement after he comes of age and Louis is dead but Anjou is probably a lost cause and Provence is definitively in the French sphere, a de facto fief. Meaning that a Provencal Italian campaign is out of the question though he'll probably be required to contribute troops to Charles VIII's invasion. Thus the near term affects, namely on the Italian Wars, may not be as significant.

Long term, best case scenario assuming France still develops aprox as OTL, Provence limps along like Lorraine did, clinging to independence on the periphery of France, constantly occupied for long periods of time but ultimately at some point, be it a few decades or a few centuries, its finally incorporated into France. Alternately if it survives the long term affects could be enough to set France on a different course leaving it too weak to absorb Provence. Or Provence could just end up as someone else's plaything perhaps a Spanish client. Its certainly possible when you're projecting several centuries out.

I actually find Nicholas of Anjou the ideal groom for Juana la Beltraneja for some reason..

Provence could be merged with Savoy by marriage the question is how, I think the Savoys can hold it off more from France compared to the Lorenians who did not seize Provence.