WI: The CSS Virginia sinks the USS Monitor

I am wondering what would happen, if by some insane work of the Almighty, the CSS Virginia were to sink the USS Monitor at the Battle of Hampton Roads and go on to destroy the USS Minnesota while she was still run aground. Does this have a prolonged effect on the war or does this simply get chalked up as one of the very few CSN victories?

While I'm not foolish enough to see this even coming close to saving the Confederacy, I am wondering what sort of effects y'all would see this having.
 
Assuming for the sake of the initial reply that it would be possible . . .

I think the main thing would depend on what happens from the inevitable doubt cast on the Monitor as a model for future ironclads.

It probably would also have some impact on the soon-to-be-launched Peninsula campaign - but more in detail than anything else.
 
Assuming for the sake of the initial reply that it would be possible . . .

I think the main thing would depend on what happens from the inevitable doubt cast on the Monitor as a model for future ironclads.

It probably would also have some impact on the soon-to-be-launched Peninsula campaign - but more in detail than anything else.

Much obliged for the initial reply, always good when someone is willing to give the time of day :)D).

I was just wondering if maybe the Virginia goes on to become a premier ass-kicker of the CS Navy and go on to sink some more Yankee ships.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
It would be extremely unlikely, though not impossible, for the Virginia to sink to Monitor if it succeeded in ramming her. The sheer weight of the Virginia would have sufficed to drive the low-riding Monitor underwater. It would have required a major error on the part of the officers commanding the Monitor, but is not inherently impossible.

If it happened, it would have several side effects. First, the design of the Monitor would have been discredited. We'd probably see more ironclads like the New Ironsides and the Galena and fewer like the Monitor. This would have a significant impact on the future of naval armaments.

Another, more immediate impact, is that it would seriously complicate McClellan's Peninsular Campaign. If the Virginia is sailing around unchallenged in Hampton Roads, it will not be possible to ship the Army of the Potomac down to Fort Monroe. McClellan will have to come up with a new plan of campaign. Knowing McClellan, it would take him a few months to come up with one.

And, of course, no Peninsular Campaign means no Battle of Fair Oaks, no Battle of Fair Oaks means no wounding of Johnston, no wounding of Johnston means no assumption of command by Lee, and no assumption of command by Lee changes the whole course of the war.
 
Much obliged for the initial reply, always good when someone is willing to give the time of day :)D).

I was just wondering if maybe the Virginia goes on to become a premier ass-kicker of the CS Navy and go on to sink some more Yankee ships.

Maybe some, but I don't think it's capable of much more than it did OTL, in terms of impact on strategy (let alone the war).

Bad engines (nothing unique for Confederate ironclads, but a great hindrance for any of them making a real impact), unseaworthy, and generally just not that impressive.
 
And, of course, no Peninsular Campaign means no Battle of Fair Oaks, no Battle of Fair Oaks means no wounding of Johnston, no wounding of Johnston means no assumption of command by Lee, and no assumption of command by Lee changes the whole course of the war.

The Confederates lose earlier then? :p
 
Johnston being wounded somewhere else for the same reason he was wounded OTL doesn't exactly seem far fetched.
 
Naval technology gets delayed a decade or two. Weapons will not advance because they don't need to.

Why would they be delayed because one ironclad defeated another ironclad instead of a draw?

The inevitable Union response is going to be building a better ironclad to take care of the Virginia.
 
Naval technology gets delayed a decade or two. Weapons will not advance because they don't need to.

Perhaps US naval technology gets delayed, not on the international scene. The monitor, as a type of warship, was a deadend. The most successful ironclad of the American Civil War was the USS New Ironsides, but it is shown little appreciation even till today. The Union Navy would have built a few more casement ironclads, especially since the Galena was quickly proven flawed.

I've always favoured the USS Keokuk as a possible replacement for the Monitor.
 
I was about to say.... Confederate victory at Hampton Roads, earlier Union victory?

I think the only way for the Virginia to sink the Monitor would be for it to somehow damage the raft, by raming, to the point that it separates from the hull and the warship floods. Unlikely, tho more dramatic, would be carefully aimed shot into a turret gunport, which is possible given the aimed shot that damaged the Monitor's pilot house.

At most the damaged CSS Virginia could leave aside the floundering Monitor and attack the remaining Union warships in the immediate area. Forcing the Union Navy to withdraw would be a sign that, however briefly, the blockade had been successfully lifted.

If unable, however temporarily, to be either supplied or withdrawn by sea, who knows what the excitable McClellan might do?
 
Perhaps US naval technology gets delayed, not on the international scene. The monitor, as a type of warship, was a deadend. The most successful ironclad of the American Civil War was the USS New Ironsides, but it is shown little appreciation even till today. The Union Navy would have built a few more casement ironclads, especially since the Galena was quickly proven flawed.

I've always favoured the USS Keokuk as a possible replacement for the Monitor.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-k/keokuk.htm

The one that was riddled with shots from the forts defending Charleston so badly that it sunk?

The monitor may have been a deadend, but this was just a failure.
 
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-k/keokuk.htm

The one that was riddled with shots from the forts defending Charleston so badly that it sunk?

The monitor may have been a deadend, but this was just a failure.

Given that it was the only ironclad lost at Charleston, that is the one. I would consider that the loss of the Keokuk is a fine examine of the misuse of the ironclads, which the Union considered to be 'wonder' ships at the time - with the monitors being even more 'wonder ships'. Against forts they were failures.

The Union experimented with many ironclad designs, the Dunderberg certainly would have been interesting in its original design. Probably the most interesting result would be the summoning of James Eads from the Western Theater to design ironclads for operations on the Atlantic.
 
Given that it was the only ironclad lost at Charleston, that is the one. I would consider that the loss of the Keokuk is a fine examine of the misuse of the ironclads, which the Union considered to be 'wonder' ships at the time - with the monitors being even more 'wonder ships'. Against forts they were failures.

The Union experimented with many ironclad designs, the Dunderberg certainly would have been interesting in its original design. Probably the most interesting result would be the summoning of James Eads from the Western Theater to design ironclads for operations on the Atlantic.

The problem is that the monitors weren't sunk by the Confederate response, the Keokuk was. I think that says that - at least in regards to armor - the Keokuk was a failure of design.

As for any other abilities, I don't know enough about it to judge what would have been an effective use of it, but that's very discouraging.

"Wonder ship" or not, a ship should be able to withstand a heavy bombardment without taking a one way trip to the bottom of the sea.
 
Both ships were of new and rather shaky designs. It could be that there was a defect, or the crew didn't fully understand the ships capabilities, or even bad luck.

The problem being is that the Confederates wouldn't have the means to make more ships, and would likely have to ditch it since they didn't have the resources to keep it working. Not to mention trained sailors.

Even if they could keep it running it would be a wasp fighting a bull. Really annoying, but mostly just painful.
 
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