WI the Celtic, Romano-British & Sarmatians formed a new entity?

What of when Rome left the British isles that the Sarmatians enlisted within the Roman ranks came to Britain en masse and united with the celtic regions to create a new entity that would defeat the saxons and keep them from returning.

Can anyone help me with this TL?
I already have a name for the new political entity 'Dragonia' or 'land of the dragon(s)'.

This successor state to the decaying Roman Empire in the west would rival its former master.

So can anyone help me?

And do you think a united presence within Britain could repel the saxons and carve out a small empire in britain and the mainland european continent.
I think it is entirely possible given the Sarmatians reputation as some of the finest horsemen in the world, the celts reputation for fierceness and the roman discipline instilled into the romano British forces.
 
The Sarmatians were sent to Britain around 175, well before the Romans pulled out. But there was about 5,500 of them sent there so it's possible they could have survived and maintained their culture there. (I've been working on a quasi-Arthurian novel involving them for years)

Assuming they do survive and maintain their equestrian culture, they could be a formidable cavalry force and mounted archers. Any kingdom involving them would be based in the North of England probably around York. They could probably keep out the Picts and Scots from the North, then Vortigern may not invite the Saxons to Britain at all.

As for them conquering large areas of the Continent, I'm not so sure, as the Continent at the time was dealing with the Huns who were the equals if not superiors to Sarmatians in horsemanship.
 
It wasn't that the Huns were superior horsemen. The Huns came to Europe as a highly militant group, compared to the comparatively settled Sarmatian peoples. Whats more, at the height of Hunnic military supremacy, their forces included a number of Sarmatian, Gothic, and Slavic auxiliaries, as the actual number of Turkic Huns wasn't quite that great.

I don't see that a military aristocracy of Sarmatian descent would stick to their nomadic roots, as becoming settled landowners would seem more rewarding to them.
 
Well having the Sarmatians who were based in the north, possibly not far from Eburacum(sp?) but with such a large continent it is no impossible that they intermarried with celts and a whole new celtic culture is born.

With the continent being just across the channel, areas like northern france, brittany and belgium would be ripe for conquest especially as the Romans pulled back.

What if the newly formed Dragonian nation that occurs with its ties to the eastern steppes allied itself with the hunnic hordes?
 
It wasn't that the Huns were superior horsemen. The Huns came to Europe as a highly militant group, compared to the comparatively settled Sarmatian peoples. Whats more, at the height of Hunnic military supremacy, their forces included a number of Sarmatian, Gothic, and Slavic auxiliaries, as the actual number of Turkic Huns wasn't quite that great.

I don't see that a military aristocracy of Sarmatian descent would stick to their nomadic roots, as becoming settled landowners would seem more rewarding to them.

True. The Huns were more an aggregation than a true ethnos. And they would have settled down. Looking through history, it usually doesn't take the nomads long to settle down after they made their conquests.

Well having the Sarmatians who were based in the north, possibly not far from Eburacum(sp?) but with such a large continent it is no impossible that they intermarried with celts and a whole new celtic culture is born.

They definitely would have interbred with the Celts. There may have even been some influence on Celtic culture in OTL if you've read From Scythia to Camelot. Not saying I believe it all, but I'm just putting it out there.

What if the newly formed Dragonian nation that occurs with its ties to the eastern steppes allied itself with the hunnic hordes?
They identified themselves as Romans and I doubt they would seek alliance with the Huns. They actually appealed to Aetius when the Picts and Scots attacked, but he was busy with Attila so their appeal was never answered.
 
But what if these new people felt betrayed by the roman withdrawal when the saxon hordes were approaching, yes in my TL the saxons get their asses handed to them but wouldn't that be enough to anger them in switching their interests towards an alliance with Attila eventually?
 
The Sarmatians were sent to Britain around 175, well before the Romans pulled out. But there was about 5,500 of them sent there so it's possible they could have survived and maintained their culture there. (I've been working on a quasi-Arthurian novel involving them for years)

Assuming they do survive and maintain their equestrian culture, they could be a formidable cavalry force and mounted archers. Any kingdom involving them would be based in the North of England probably around York. They could probably keep out the Picts and Scots from the North, then Vortigern may not invite the Saxons to Britain at all.

As for them conquering large areas of the Continent, I'm not so sure, as the Continent at the time was dealing with the Huns who were the equals if not superiors to Sarmatians in horsemanship.
This sounds like the movie "The Last Legion" w/ Colin Firth.
 
They will have to deal with Germanic invasions at some point,
but I think it is possible that your new nation is able to fend them off.

However, why do you think that they should go conquer on the continent?
This is a major logistic effort which requires, among others, a sufficiently
large population and a stable economy. Does anybody know an estimate
of the pre-Anglosaxon British population?
 
Well it is entirely possible that the celtic nation attempts to gain a foothold in the north of france or possibly brittany just to ensure no nation marches against them without having to fight the mainland forces.

I am trying to find out the population count but it is quite hard, any ideas?
 
okay that helps a lot.
would a ruling class of celts and sarmatians have invited sarmatians or other tribes similar to their cultures i.e. galicians, basques & scythians to their new nation.

or would they have concentrated on isolating themselves and creating a stable successor state to rome
 
No idea.

But I'd imagine that, yes, Sarmatian nobles would be quite keen to have other Sarmatians around.

As for the rest... Your guess is as good as mine.
 
With the increasing amount of Sarmatian nobles arriving and the possible influx of mainland celts coming to the island, the different tongues and cultures clashing would be huge but I think eventually a ruling british and samartian class would eventually craft some form of society along with the romano british there as a template and eventually a new rome could be born.

and with the knowledge of how rome created their own empire and the world changing rapidly, i think that they could quickly rise and rise before becoming a threat to rome itself, even if it had no intentions to sack rome unlike attila
 
I think the Sarmatians would have as much of an impact on Britain as the Suebi did on modern Portugal and Galicia...

Also, Dragonia? That sounds like something out of a pulp fantasy novel.
 
couldnt think of an alternate name. just something that showed the cultural links between all 3 groups in britain at the time.
 
How about Draka? It's kind of Latin (which the Romano-British would have spoken and the other two groups would have been at least semi fluent in) and...

Oh wait :eek:
 
More like Arthur with Keira Knightley (I seem to remember there were some males in the film, but I wasn't paying attention to them:))
:eek:My bad the one I was thinking of was 2004s "King Arthur" with Clive Owen as the King. The plot was similar to the OP idea.
Dathi your bad Keira was in this film not the Last Legion.;)
 
:eek:My bad the one I was thinking of was 2004s "King Arthur" with Clive Owen as the King. The plot was similar to the OP idea.
Dathi your bad Keira was in this film not the Last Legion.;)


Aishwariya Rai was in the Last Legion. And some other people. And some stuff happened, or something. But mainly: Aishwariya Rai :D
 
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