WI the Byzantines annex the Papal States on the 10th century

I was thinking what if the Byzantines annex the Papal States during the 10th century, what would happen to the Latin and Greek rites?
 

Delvestius

Banned
If the Byzantines attempted to do this, it would have meant full out war with the Holy Roman Empire... They may have had early success in taking out Apulia and Capua, but by that point I would imagine a sufficient amount of Bavarian and Swabian knights would be marching down to support good ol' St. Peter..
 
I don't think it's too plausible that they'd try. The tenth century was generally a period of expansion in the East, taking advantage of the lack of a single, centralised Muslim state. The Byzantines were making huge gains in Armenia, Cilicia and Syria- why would they want to abandon these campaigns to wage a war in Italy, a region of the Empire that was quite semi-detached in any case.

If there are serious campaigns in Italy, Sicily will come first, in any case, as it has the triple advantages of being rich, largely Christian and primarily Greek speaking in the tenth century.
 
If the Byzantines attempted to do this, it would have meant full out war with the Holy Roman Empire... They may have had early success in taking out Apulia and Capua, but by that point I would imagine a sufficient amount of Bavarian and Swabian knights would be marching down to support good ol' St. Peter..
Well,certainly,and Basil II or Nikiphoros Phocas or Ioannis Tsimiskis who had the best veteran army in the world would be 'frightened out of their wits'...or in reality they would serve smelly nights for lunch...
 
Also, why would the HRE especially care?

It has other concerns than the temporal property of the Pope.
 
Also, why would the HRE especially care?

It has other concerns than the temporal property of the Pope.

Because the Ottonian Emperors like to act like "proper" late Roman Emperors- using Rome as their capital and adopting Byzantine methods of governance? Rome is going to be very important to them, I would think.
 
Because the Ottonian Emperors like to act like "proper" late Roman Emperors- using Rome as their capital and adopting Byzantine methods of governance? Rome is going to be very important to them, I would think.

Point.

Which brings up the question. De facto, does the Pope actually control the area that became the Papal States at this point?
 
Point.

Which brings up the question. De facto, does the Pope actually control the area that became the Papal States at this point?

Hmmm. Could very easily be wrong, but I don't think Papal control exists much beyond Rome in the tenth century. LSCatilina would be your man to ask.
 
Fair question. The early part of the century was the time of the pornocracy. Many of the popes were not masters of their own fate; the house of Theophlact, based in Tusculum, and the Dukes of Spoleto were the puppet masters.

There was an opportunity for Byzantium then, because neither Germany nor France were strong enough to intervene effectively. Rome's only potential allies were Italian and Burgundian. On the other hand, Byzantium wasn't pursuing adventurous foreign policies at that time, and it didn't have the talented generals it had in the second half of the century.

In the second half of the century, a Byzantine takeover would face vigorous armed opposition from the Holy Roman Empire.

I doubt that Byzantine rule would be popular in Rome at any time in the century. Combination of bad blood from the times that iconoclast exarchs tried to impose their rule in Rome, theological differences and tax collectors.
 
Wouldnt that mean that Franks and other western powers would be implicated heavily too? I dont think that Byzantines could handle Franks (and any other westerners) in the same time with Bulgars and Arabs...

(Plz forgive if i make any mistakes i am on vacations and i cant think clearly... :D)
 
Wouldnt that mean that Franks and other western powers would be implicated heavily too? I dont think that Byzantines could handle Franks (and any other westerners) in the same time with Bulgars and Arabs...

(Plz forgive if i make any mistakes i am on vacations and i cant think clearly... :D)

OBVIOULSY! you are forgiven! At least have a nice holiday and enjoy yourself!
 
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