WI the Angevins and the Hohenstaufens are successful

Eurofed

Banned
Let's assume a TL where both the Angevin Empire (Britain, Ireland, and France) and the Hohenstaufen HRE (Germany, Italy, Low Countries, Austria, Switzerland, Bohemia-Moravia, and Western Poland) successfully evolve into centralized unitary monarchies by 1300-1400. About the Angevins, Henry II gets a crop of talented sons instead of the horrible Richard and John, who successfully manage to entrench their control over Western France, and their descendants gradually cut down the Capetian demesne and Burgundy to insignificance and absorption. About the Hohenstaufen, Barbarossa and his son are more longeve and successful against German princes and Italian city-states, so the Erbreichsplan is passed and the Kingdom of Sicily is consolidated with the Empire. By 1300 both states have laid down the sturdy basis of a centralized monarchy and by 1400-1450 internal consolidation is done and both empires are ready and eager for expansion both in Europe and beyond. Both empires find a (temporary) common interest in crushing the theocratic aspirations of the Papacy, so the Investiture Controversy is settled with the victory of the secular monarchies, and power within the Church is concentrated in the various national episcopates, under the control of the emperors.
 

Eurofed

Banned
And that question is ... ? I can't seem to find one in the OP.

Soory, I thought it was implicit in the OP. My fault. :eek: The question is, given the OP scenario, what happens to Europe and the world in the following centuries ?
 

Philip

Donor
You summarized some 300 years of European history in five sentences. It is rather hard say where Europe is headed when we don't really know how it got there. You need to provide much more in the way of details. How have the two empires interacted? What's happening in Iberia, Russia, Scandinavia, and the rest of Europe. Has the Roman Empire fallen in the East? What of the Turks? And the other Central Asia peoples? Have there been plagues like the Black Death? All of these, and many more, will greatly effect what happens in the ATL.
 
In order for Henry to have "better sons" he has to marry someone other than Eleanor of Aquitaine or have a better maritial relationship with her (i.e. no infidelities). If Henry does not marry Eleanor he risks losing the Aquitaine (half of France), the Vexen, and Brittany. England is not so strong anymore in this scenario.
 
Well, if Geoffrey had lived you wouldn't have had King John, and King Geoffrey would have been succeeded by King Arthur. I don't really know much about the characters of either man

By 1300 both states have laid down the sturdy basis of a centralized monarchy and by 1400-1450 internal consolidation is done and both empires are ready and eager for expansion both in Europe and beyond.

Strikes me this is the key, but what does it mean ? What is a "sturdy basis of a centralised monarchy" ? Especially, what is it in this timeframe ?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
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