WI The American West Coast had Seceded as a Communist Country?

[Father Maryland]

Here's a list of people that the House Un-American Activities Committee believed to be members of the CPUSA. One was an avowed Communist, one or two more there's a strong possibility of them being members and the rest probably weren't.

It's well worth remembering that Samuel Dickstein one of the founders of HUAC was a verified and confirmed NKVD agent. He wasn't a communist though. He merely turned traitor for cash and a relatively low amount as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Dickstein_(congressman)#McCormack-Dickstein_Committee

 

[wcv215]

Here's a list of people that the House Un-American Activities Committee believed to be members of the CPUSA. One was an avowed Communist, one or two more there's a strong possibility of them being members and the rest probably weren't.

That’s not what he asked though, he asked which ones were Soviet spies.

 

[GenericAltHistorian]

ASB. The West Coast seceding is literally impossible. The only way this scenario could happen without ASB intervention is to have the US collapsing after WW1, possibly in a successful Zimmerman Telegram scenario where Mexico joins the CP.

 

[LiquidOxygen]

Agreed. As noted, only one of the people suspected as a member of the CPUSA was actually a confirmed member. The rest ranged from, "probably a member," to "what the fuck were you smoking putting them on this list."

Indeed. My main problem with the OP, though, was the contention that several prominent members of Hollywood were actual Soviet spies, a contention which was not backed up by any evidence.

 

[Major Major]

It's well worth remembering that Samuel Dickstein one of the founders of HUAC was a verified and confirmed NKVD agent. He wasn't a communist though. He merely turned traitor for cash and a relatively low amount as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Dickstein_(congressman)#McCormack-Dickstein_Committee

And the NKVD gave him the perceptive code name of CROOK. All he gave them old McCormack-Dickstein Committee files. They didn't even think he was worth keeping as an agent of influence.

 

[Father Maryland]

And the NKVD gave him the perceptive code name of CROOK. All he gave them old McCormack-Dickstein Committee files. They didn't even think he was worth keeping as an agent of influence.

It says something when a foreign spy agency decided that having a major member of a enemy nation's legislature on their payroll isn't worth it.

Hopefully the fucker is rotting in hell.

 

[Jellico]

Is there anywhere that would be vulnerable to agrarian socialism? It strikes me as the sort of thing that could take hold in Southern US. Conservative, subsidies to the land owners, local control, etc.

 

[SsgtC]

That’s not what he asked though, he asked which ones were Soviet spies.

Indeed. My main problem with the OP, though, was the contention that several prominent members of Hollywood were actual Soviet spies, a contention which was not backed up by any evidence.

That's true. But the reason I linked to that list is because at the time, it was assumed that if you were a member of the CPUSA, you were actively working for the USSR under the direction of Moscow and were a spy in all but name

 

[marathag]

This is IMO rather close to ASB. Not to mention that at this time the west coast wasn't as left wing as it is today.

Oregon had a high percentage of Klansmen in the '20s than some Southern States.

 

[overoceans]

That’s not what he asked though, he asked which ones were Soviet spies.

My understanding is that, as far as artistic endeavours went, Hollywood commies actually produced relatively little in the way of enemy propaganda. I've heard there was some film made during World War II, portraying Americans and Soviets working together, with a Nazi villain made to look like Trotsky, who gets tossed from an airplane. But, of course, the US and USSR were allies at the time, so that counts as patriotism, not subversion.

Other than that, most of the discussion I've heard about fellow-traveler filmmaking was about projects that never got made, eg. some War Of 1812 thing from the Molotov-Ribbentrop era, with the ghost of Andrew Jackson showing up to inform the audience that the US should never ally with the British, they're not to be trusted etc. I'd be open to correction on this, but I would suspect that, for the Cold War anyway, pro-Soviet films would go over about as well as pro-ISIS filmmaking would go over today, ie. pretty hard to push the agenda without audiences going "WTF?"

 

[LiquidOxygen]

That's true. But the reason I linked to that list is because at the time, it was assumed that if you were a member of the CPUSA, you were actively working for the USSR under the direction of Moscow and were a spy in all but name

Indeed it was. My purpose in commenting was really only a request for evidence, as the contention in the OP was stated as a bald fact.

 

[David T]

A Communist California is a fantasy in any event, but seems even less likely if Trotsky controlled the Soviet Union. The California Communist Party won such influence as it did in the 1930's due largely to the People's Front and Democratic Front policies of downplaying revolution and working with non-Communist progressives for "reformist" objectives--in effect, portraying itself as a sort of left wing of the New Deal coalition. Communists and close sympathizers had some influence in Governor Culbert Olson's administration until Olson broke with them over the war and the German-Soviet pact. Trotsky and the Trotskyists denounced all this as rank opportunism, yet without the California Communists' support of the New Deal and the CIO--to the extent that the decidedly non-revolutionary Franklin D. Roosevelt and John L. Lewis became almost beyond criticism--it is doubtful that they would have become much more than the small sect they had been in the early 1930's.

Of course it is possible that the "extremism" of the Trotskyists in the 1930's was simply a function of their lack of power, and that if Trotsky had come to power, he would himself have adopted People's Front-type policies, but that is another matter.

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

Is there anywhere that would be vulnerable to agrarian socialism? It strikes me as the sort of thing that could take hold in Southern US. Conservative, subsidies to the land owners, local control, etc.

That ship sailed in the early 20th Century. By the 1920s the tipping point was reached where half the US population was now Urban/suburban & the shift from agricultural/rural labor to urban oriented was accelerating. By the early 1960s only 10% of the total population was directly involved in rural agriculture. Even before the 1920s agrarian organizations like the Grange & related movements were stagnated or declining. That the communists & socialists were unable to make something of the migration of impoverished agricultural workers from the Great Plains to California says something.

There are the heavy farm subsidies, direct and indirect, to commercial agriculture in the SW that constitute a sort of socialism. I've seen numbers from the 1960s & 1970s that strongly suggest the existing commercial agriculture system in the SW would shrink radically were it required to pay its full costs in terms of water, transportation, & related infrastructure. I've chatted with a academic specializing in water rights who had a similar opinion, circa 2005. Specifically if the users in the Colorado region to pay the actual costs of the water they used, the changes in the regional economy would be profound, and agriculture, industry, and a portion of the population would shift to cheaper water regions.

 

[Major Major]

My understanding is that, as far as artistic endeavours went, Hollywood commies actually produced relatively little in the way of enemy propaganda. I've heard there was some film made during World War II, portraying Americans and Soviets working together, with a Nazi villain made to look like Trotsky, who gets tossed from an airplane. But, of course, the US and USSR were allies at the time, so that counts as patriotism, not subversion.

Other than that, most of the discussion I've heard about fellow-traveler filmmaking was about projects that never got made, eg. some War Of 1812 thing from the Molotov-Ribbentrop era, with the ghost of Andrew Jackson showing up to inform the audience that the US should never ally with the British, they're not to be trusted etc. I'd be open to correction on this, but I would suspect that, for the Cold War anyway, pro-Soviet films would go over about as well as pro-ISIS filmmaking would go over today, ie. pretty hard to push the agenda without audiences going "WTF?"

Yes. They never did anything like Oliver Stonesky's Kirov.