WI the Air attack aginst Pear Harbor failed

Germanys declaration of war on the USA was never as stupid as is commonly assumed.

They were certain it was only a matter of time before the USA declared war (the incidents in the Atlantic and Roosevelts actions made this a quite logical descision), at which point they would have to counter (at the least) the US Air forces.

If the USA is at war with Japan, the US moves onto a full wartime production footing. The Nazis were quite capable of working out what that meant (granted, they underestimated the US production, but they were in the right area). So after Japan gets stomped the US has massive armed forces available. If they then decide to declare war, Germany is in a major mess.

So it is in fact logical to attack now, before they get ramped up, and do as much damage as possible while the going is good. If enough damage is done, the US may sue for peace (noone realised at the time just how PH would affect America resolve), and even if not, the benefits of attacking an unprepared US may buy them enough time to finish off Russia and build western defences.

Hitlers DOW wasnt a good descision, but it was quite possible the best decision under the circumstances (real and apparant)
 

Markus

Banned
US radar on PH picked up the search plane. From Dec.7th, the Air Force Story, p.61 and 70:


Roughly twenty minutes ahead of this attacking armada flew two Zero type scout planes launched from the heavy cruisers Chikuma and Tone. ... Not only were the scout planes spotted, five different radar stations on Oahu tracked one of them across the island. Unfortunately, these stations had no idea how important this contact was and did nothing about it.


During the first two hours, no radar contacts were made. At 0613, Koko Head and Fort Shafter began picking up sightings south of the island. Then at 0645, Kaaawa, Opana, and Kawailoa picked up a target approximately 135 miles north of Oahu heading south. All three stations called the Information Center with the targets, which were then plotted on the master plot board. ... These first plots were probably the scout planes sent ahead of the main attacking force.

0645 was 63 minutes before the first bombs fell.
 
I've long guessed that part of Hitler's DOW decision was also that he was following fascist logic. Fascism includes the idea of the "leadership-principle," the notion that humanity is inherently hierarchal and success is a function of a chain of command; Hitler therefore needed to position Germany on the top of the national food-chain and himself on top of the pyramid of Leaders.

In theory, he could have considered that after all the Japanese had done nothing for him in regards to his war on the Soviet Union. Of course Japan was in no way obligated to do so under the Anti-Comintern Pact, which was worded to require all members to come to the aid of any of them attacked by the USSR but said nothing about any requirement to join an attack on Russia. But by declaring war on the party the Japanese chose to attack so unilaterally while the Japanese had failed to jump onto his anti-Soviet bandwagon, I think he was demonstrating to his own satisfaction which Axis nation was the leader and which merely followed.

In general the fascists, believing that human beings are best organized when in an essentially military hierarchy of command and obedience, greatly underestimated the resolve of the Western liberal democracies. And to their credit, they didn't look all that wrong in the European context. They did not figure that a nation like the USA would get stronger in the face of adversity (nor did they figure that the Soviets would). In general their mindset predisposed them to the idea that whoever struck first and hardest would prevail, having "won" the fight by showing who was tougher.

It might work among timber wolves maybe.
 
Hitler may not declare war against the US with such losses. He only declared war because he thought the US Navy was emasculated and would be kept busy with the Japanese for a long time.


No.

Hitler declared war when he did because war with the US was now a certainty. By choosing when the war would start, instead of waiting for the war to happen, Hitler and Germany were able to attack an America which was essentially unprepared but whose preparedness was increasingly growing. By declaring war at a time of their choosing, Germany was able to sink over 600 merchant ships for example.

Now that Japan's actions meant the US and Britain were allies in a war against Japan, the US would begin supplying Britain directly and Germany could not allow those supplies to go through. Unlike what some on these boards would like to believe, the ships and the goods they'd be carrying wouldn't have huge For Use Against Japan Only signs on them.

Germany would have to attack to prevent those supplies from reaching Britain and such an attack would give the US a basis for it's own declaration of war.

Hitler could either declare war when it was better for Germany or wait for the US to declare war when it was better for it, so he chose the time which was better for Germany.
 
My guess is, that Hitler hoped, the Japanese might enter the war against the Soviet Union if Germany enterd the war against the US. Japan would not have been required to lauch an invasion of Soviet territory, a blockade of the port of Vladivostok would have been quite harmful to the USSR, since this was the other route via which US aid reached the Soviet Union.
 
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