WI: The 54th Massachusetts had caputured fort wagner

What if the 54th Massachusetts had caputured Fort Wagner in July 1863? What effects would it have on the civil war? Would Charleston fall sooner, or would the Confederacy still hold onto it till the end? What about the effects of a black regiment facing certain death, captured fort Wagner? What would the reaction in the north be? Would shorten the war capturing Charleston?
 
I think the most likely outcome is that flush with their victory, Union troops would press on and try to capture Charleston in a land/naval assault (you know, cockpit of secession and all that), which would have resulted in their defeat, since Beauregarde was at his best when defending that city. Fort Sumter would still have to be assaulted as well, which could be difficult.

Capturing Charleston would not have dealt a blow to the Confederacy I think, because the city was basically neutralized after the fall of Port Royal in 1861. By 1863 the hopes of the Confederacy were pinned on its armies, not on geographic spots.
 
What if the 54th Massachusetts had caputured Fort Wagner in July 1863? What effects would it have on the civil war? Would Charleston fall sooner, or would the Confederacy still hold onto it till the end? What about the effects of a black regiment facing certain death, captured fort Wagner? What would the reaction in the north be? Would shorten the war capturing Charleston?

Fort Wagner fell by siege some one to three months later. Glorious charges into the face of concentrated artillery and rifled muskets almost always ended in disastrous failure. The military technology in the American Civil War was wholly defensive. Not as bad as WWI before the introduction of fully machinegun proof tanks in 1918, but bad enough.

With few exceptions, such ACW attacks simply did not work. Two sides would bash away at each other until the more battered side withdrew.

If it had somehow been a success (say, the Confederates were in the midst of re-inforcing the garrison while wounded were being removed), there is the possibility that the Confederates (and Copperhead Northern Democrats) might well have tried to claim that the supporting White brigades carried the day (they did also suffer very heavy casualties), not the 54th Massachusetts. Since both Colonel Shaw and the commander of the assault (Brigadier General Strong) were killed, it would have been left to Major General Quincy Gilmore to "spin" the story however he may have wished to do so. I think though that with a victory to his credit, he might well trumpet the victory all the more.

Unfortunately, the to-the-knife nature of conflict between Union Blacks and Confederate Whites (often fought under the black flag) meant that it was not unusual for the Confederates in a battlefield to throw their reserves at a flank that was relatively unthreatened, but was facing Black troops. The idea being to effect a great slaughter of Black troops, and the hell with what happened elsewhere on the battlefield. IIRC this resulted in absolute disaster for the Confederates at Nashville. Better to lose a battle, and an army, and a city, and a state, to White Yankees, rather than lose a minor skirmish to a bunch of armed damned N-----s!:mad:

The only real strategic triumph I can recall that was enjoyed by Black troops in the Civil War was the all-Black XXIV & XXV Corps taking Richmond!:p:D
 
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Since both Colonel Shaw and the commander of the assault (Brigadier General Strong) were killed, it would have been left to the corrupt Major General Quincy Gilmore to "spin" the story however he may have wished to do so. I think though that with a victory to "his" credit, he might well trumpet the victory all the more.

Corrupt?

What I know of Gilmore in regards to anything of this sort is minimal, but since you mention him downplaying the 54th's role as likely, I figure it's a good chance to ask why you think that.
 
I know they were bombardingvthe fort for sometime, but would maybe a more consistent bombardment be possible?, and by that i mean a few days extra or somethng like that, maybe with just ss much land artillery as well as naval artillery?

I mean, if the 54th captures the fort, and we say that Shaw survives, this is nt only a political coup for Black Republicans, it is an excellent POD overall.
 
Corrupt?

What I know of Gilmore in regards to anything of this sort is minimal, but since you mention him downplaying the 54th's role as likely, I figure it's a good chance to ask why you think that.

Hmm. Based on what I've read up on him, he may have been the victim of bad press, particularly on his history of commanding African-American troops. I'll fix it.
 
I know they were bombardingvthe fort for sometime, but would maybe a more consistent bombardment be possible?, and by that i mean a few days extra or somethng like that, maybe with just ss much land artillery as well as naval artillery?

I mean, if the 54th captures the fort, and we say that Shaw survives, this is nt only a political coup for Black Republicans, it is an excellent POD overall.

The construction of that fort meant they really needed to take their time with properly advancing siege lines, not blindly led infantry charges across narrow frontal assaults.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Upton came pretty close to "storm troops" tactics

The construction of that fort meant they really needed to take their time with properly advancing siege lines, not blindly led infantry charges across narrow frontal assaults.

Emory Upton came pretty close to "storm troops" tactics and rolling bombardments in his set-pieces, but that was late in the game.

If Upton had been an infantryman, rather than an artilleryman, AND with the 2nd Mass., Shaw would have been exposed to four West Pointers in 1862, three of them graduates, and presumably providing him with the best fusion of both the standard and evolving infantry tactics.

As it was, the 2nd Mass was pretty healthy in terms of professional and professionally-trained officers, with Gordon and Andrews as a volunteer officer Shaw had some excellent examples to draw from, as well as his own experience in the 7th NYSM.

One thing worth remembering around the USCTs (including the formerly state USV (Colored) regiments that were transferred into the USCTs; since these were "federal" regiments, their officers were (generally) selected more on merit than connections at the state level, and they were all volunteers - and they tended to be young, including many former ncos.

Forged in Battle by Joseph Glatthaar is well worth reading.

Best,
 
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