WI: Texas Packed the Electoral College and Senate

Delta Force

Banned
Under the terms of its annexation, Texas was allowed to create up to four more states out of its territory, without requiring congressional approval. Could Texas have abused this right to create what were essentially four puppet states under the control of the Texan government, such as by declaring the land occupied by the Texas Senate, Texas House, Texas Governor's Mansion, and Texas Supreme Court as the territory of separate states or similar legal trickery? This would have given Texas twelve additional Electoral College votes (and a minimum of fifteen for Texas and its puppet states), eight additional seats in the Senate (a total of ten), and at least four additional seats in the House until the next Census.

If performed in 1860, it would have increased the number of states to 38, with Texas and its puppets counting for five of them (13.16%). That would allow Texas and five other states to prevent an amendment to the Constitution, and allow the historical states of the Confederacy to hold up any constitutional amendment they wanted unless 60 states were admitted.

What would have been the result if this had happened in 1860?
 
Is it really clear that Texas can divide itself without congressional approval? The joint resolution of annexation provides that "New States of convenient size not exceeding four in number, in addition to said State of Texas and having sufficient population, may, hereafter by the consent of said State, be formed out of the territory thereof, which shall be entitled to admission under the provisions of the Federal Constitution".

As someone pointed out in soc.history.what-if a plausible interpretation of this would be that

"these new states (and it is unclear who is supposed
to form them, Texas merely "consents") must be approved by the regular
process of admitting a state: i.e a vote of Congress. In short, this
provision amounts to an overly specific reiteration of the right states
have always had: to split themselves into multiple states, provided
Congress approves. This right was used to form the states of Kentucky,
Maine, West Virginia, and (de jure, but not de facto) Vermont..."

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/soc.history.what-if/H8jePs_n6n4/udGyGfqokXMJ

For some objections to this interpretation, see https://groups.google.com/d/msg/soc.history.what-if/H8jePs_n6n4/HFUuKAt7C_YJ
 
And wasn't that 'Texas' in the wider sense, including not only the modern state of that name bust also the republic's claims to other parts of Spanish-held territory... meaning that some of the modern states adjoining Texas (especially New Mexico) were created partially from the lands concerned?
 

Delta Force

Banned
Is it really clear that Texas can divide itself without congressional approval? The joint resolution of annexation provides that "New States of convenient size not exceeding four in number, in addition to said State of Texas and having sufficient population, may, hereafter by the consent of said State, be formed out of the territory thereof, which shall be entitled to admission under the provisions of the Federal Constitution".

I don't think there are set rules in admitting new states, simply that new states have to ratify the United States Constitution and be accepted by Congress. When states are formed from the territory of existing ones, both the state and Congress must approve. In the case of Texas, the annexation documents can be seen as a kind of pre-approval.

And wasn't that 'Texas' in the wider sense, including not only the modern state of that name bust also the republic's claims to other parts of Spanish-held territory... meaning that some of the modern states adjoining Texas (especially New Mexico) were created partially from the lands concerned?

Texas received $10 million in United States government bonds in exchange for some of its territorial claims, so it probably only applies to the borders of the state of Texas.
 

U.S David

Banned
Why would Texas do that?

Look at how large, powerful, and influencal it is today. Its not going to control all those extra states in the long one, just like how it doesn't control New Mexico which came from Texas.
 

Delta Force

Banned
Why would Texas do that?

Look at how large, powerful, and influencal it is today. Its not going to control all those extra states in the long one, just like how it doesn't control New Mexico which came from Texas.

That's why they would do it through legal trickery, assigning the territory to a very small piece of land that would be controlled by representatives of the Texas state government. Think something like a rotten borough.
 
Are there any requirements for how long senators, electoral college candidates and represenatives have to live in a state?

You'd also need a few residents to vote for them and a legislature to appoint the senators, but I don't see why the state legislature couldn't be just one guy.

The problem is getting the size right so they function on paper but are completely Texan puppets. If they can I don't see why this wouldn't work.
 
The problem with this idea isn't whether or not Texas could do it. If Texas decided to split itself into multiple states it can ick however large or small those states are, the only requirement being that the government of Texas consented to the division. The problem is that Congress can simply refuse to admit the new states as states.they wouldn't automatically become states, they'd be territories and have to go through the whole process of applying for admission. If Texas tries so blatantly to pack the Senate and Electoral College you can bet the Northern controlled House would block admission.
 
Why would Texas do that?

Look at how large, powerful, and influencal it is today. Its not going to control all those extra states in the long one, just like how it doesn't control New Mexico which came from Texas.

The point that everyone seems to be missing that there wouldn't be any way that Texas could pack the Senate or Electorate - there would be Texas and the other states - with their own interests. There would be the Governor of Texas and the other governors and the other state legislatures etc. Each one would eventually develop their own identity.
 

Delta Force

Banned
The point that everyone seems to be missing that there wouldn't be any way that Texas could pack the Senate or Electorate - there would be Texas and the other states - with their own interests. There would be the Governor of Texas and the other governors and the other state legislatures etc. Each one would eventually develop their own identity.

That's why the four new states would be deliberately made to have a small area and population, making them akin to puppet states. Someone's house could be a "state".
 
That's why the four new states would be deliberately made to have a small area and population, making them akin to puppet states. Someone's house could be a "state".

None the less, this cannot happen without approval from the US Congress, which, given the scenario at hand, would most probably never happen.
 
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