John Fredrick Parker
Donor
In 1620, he died within a few months of coronation. How would the Ming have fared had he lived to, say, the mid 1640's?
Ming Dynasty could well become totally different, and may well survive until modern day.
You may have misunderstood my meaning. I do not think Ming could likely survive unless Wanli Emperor died not more than 5 years after the death of Zhang Juzheng - while he purged his family following Zhang's death in 1582, he still worked under the frame of Zhang's reform until he began to ignore administrative affairs since 1590. I'm only providing the slim but latest possible way for Ming to survive. In my assumption, I also hinted that such a survival would only be a result of multi-butterflies brought by. Also, it's very difficult for Ming to survive - after all, it's unlikely for all my conditions for a sensible survival; but not to ASB levels, if the rise of Wei Zhongxian could be prevented. Factionalism was a huge problem, but Taichang Emperor's support towards the Donglin movement may well affect the balance. Bear in mind that in Ming Dynasty, neither the Donglin movement or the non-Donglin group could eliminate one another even if the ruling Emperor, Chief Grand Secretary or most powerful eunuch decide to kill off most people in the group. It just would not disappear, but dissident views may not really end Ming rule, it helped make things better instead. It was factionalism in Ming Dynasty that provoked high-quality discussion in Imperial Court and the Grand Secretariat, and discussions may not always be bad.You're assuming a lot in your scenario. The factionalism rather deep and entrenched and would a lot of effort to get rid of.
Well, the period from 9-25 CE was a full Han collapse, in the sense that the Han no longer existed. It'd be easier to argue there were two Han dynasties, one of which was one of the high points of Chinese history, the other of which was a close imitation of the former.Except for, well, the Han Dynasty.![]()
*snip*
I'm only providing the slim but latest possible way for Ming to survive. In my assumption, I also hinted that such a survival would only be a result of multi-butterflies brought by. Also, it's very difficult for Ming to survive - after all, it's unlikely for all my conditions for a sensible survival; but not to ASB levels, if the rise of Wei Zhongxian could be prevented.
First off Tony, you are as amazing as ever
Second, suppowe then the 1620's do happen as you festive -- how likely is Ming survival now, and for how long? After all, a successful Donglin Movement, I think, would have plenty of historical impact in it own right...
Yep, I believe so. If the Catholic-friendly Donglin movement could control the Grand Secretariat until then, China in the early 18th century may well have become a stable superpowerWill say, did not know about the Wanggong Factory Disaster -- all I can say is
That said, it sounds like if (a) the Taiching Emperor lives, and (b) this disaster is averted, the Ming keeping the Liadong becomes likely, and all three of these taken together means the state can better respond to the crop crisis. Then it's just making it to 1650, and then Ming should be stable until at least the 18th Century.
Do I have that about right?
Yep, I believe so. If the Catholic-friendly Donglin movement could control the Grand Secretariat until then, China in the early 18th century may well have become a stable superpower![]()