Wi: Syrian Social Nationalist Party takes over Syria

not so much different than Baath Party? have been aligned (if not exactly allied) at several points including today.

seems you would need an Islamist Party to have significant changes in foreign or domestic policies?
 
Wow, a Nazi party taking over Syria? You found a scenario where the Middle East turns out even worse than IOTL.
 
It would be fun as hell!

In all seriousness though, Syria probably be in a better spot than today. I imagine a rapprochement with Israel. Israel is basically the only country in the middle East without oil. Their value in any Great Syrian state is minimal. A compromise should be worked out.

The SSNP would probably prefer the U.S to the Soviets during the cold war. They could be lined up to annex Iraq during an alt Gulf war. A secular anti communist state? Western leaders have had wet dreams about having such an ally in the Arab world.

From an economic point of view Syria might be less dependent on oil. Or at least have a more diversified economy.

The existence of an independent Lebanon long term would also be in doubt.
 
Israel is basically the only country in the middle East without oil.

*Cough* Yemen, *cough* Turkey *Cough Morrocco*, *Cough* Lebanon, etc.

XpYxKIW.png

^
#YemenCannotIntoOil

EDIT: Israel acutally has quite a bit of oil. http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/26/news/israel-gas-exports-energy-independence/
 
It would be fun as hell!

In all seriousness though, Syria probably be in a better spot than today. I imagine a rapprochement with Israel. Israel is basically the only country in the middle East without oil. Their value in any Great Syrian state is minimal. A compromise should be worked out.

The SSNP would probably prefer the U.S to the Soviets during the cold war. They could be lined up to annex Iraq during an alt Gulf war. A secular anti communist state? Western leaders have had wet dreams about having such an ally in the Arab world.

From an economic point of view Syria might be less dependent on oil. Or at least have a more diversified economy.

The existence of an independent Lebanon long term would also be in doubt.


Would they go for an alliance with the USA, though? I could imagine there being conflicts of interest between SSNP revisionism and Western interests in Jordan and Lebanon. I guess the Soviet Union would exploit that and work towards a rapprochement with Social-Nationalist Syria. The Baath parties in Iraq and Syria were also not exactly friendly with the Communists, but that didn't stop the Soviets from supporting them. At that time, the Soviet leadership modified its foreign policy in the developing world by stating that the working-class in the 'periphery' should brush aside their class struggle and instead unite with the local bourgeoisie to form a common front against the Western bourgeoisie. I could see that happening with a Social-Nationalist Syria as well.

Ideologically, I could see SSNP Syria siding with the Phalange in Lebanon during the civil war, though, which might indeed have strange effects regarding Israel.
 
Would they go for an alliance with the USA, though? I could imagine there being conflicts of interest between SSNP revisionism and Western interests in Jordan and Lebanon. I guess the Soviet Union would exploit that and work towards a rapprochement with Social-Nationalist Syria. The Baath parties in Iraq and Syria were also not exactly friendly with the Communists, but that didn't stop the Soviets from supporting them. At that time, the Soviet leadership modified its foreign policy in the developing world by stating that the working-class in the 'periphery' should brush aside their class struggle and instead unite with the local bourgeoisie to form a common front against the Western bourgeoisie. I could see that happening with a Social-Nationalist Syria as well.

Ideologically, I could see SSNP Syria siding with the Phalange in Lebanon during the civil war, though, which might indeed have strange effects regarding Israel.

They would probably side with the Lebanese Phalange, I certainly agree. I don't think the Soviet Union would support the SSNP, they'd support Iraq and Saddam Hussein's Ba'ath party. I think that if SSNP Syria decides to give up on invading Israel then they'll be a U.S ally. I think they, if we want to wank them, will agree not to touch Israel and instead get the U.S to support them in annexing Lebanon and Iraq. The U.S doesn't like to support people annexing other countries.

During the Lebanese Civil War a Syrian annexation of Lebanon though will likely go under the radar enough to be accepted by the U.S and S.U. The Iraqi state will be next. Depends on what Saddam stupid thing Saddam decides to do ITTL next. If rather than go after Iran (if the Revolution is butterflied away) than he might go against Social-National Syria things could get interesting. Very interesting. A Sryian-Iraqi war will be something interesting. In this case the U.S will side with Syria and the Soviets with Iraq. Israel won't be happy.

I kind of want to see a TL of the SSNP taking over Syria!
 
instead of the Baath party taking over Syria could the ssnp have taken over syria in the 1950s or 60s.
what would the foreign and domestic policies of an ssnp syria . Would they have annexed lebanon during the Lebanese civil war

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Social_Nationalist_Party
This is an ASB scenario. No way could such a party take power in Syria. Syria was either Arab Nationalist, Islamist, or separatists, there was not really this concept of "Syrian Race." This political party has never been popular in Syria and its own survival relies on the Baath party. (they are fighting for Assad, after all, he is their only hope).
 
This is an ASB scenario. No way could such a party take power in Syria. Syria was either Arab Nationalist, Islamist, or separatists, there was not really this concept of "Syrian Race." This political party has never been popular in Syria and its own survival relies on the Baath party. (they are fighting for Assad, after all, he is their only hope).
Perhaps you should read something about the Syrian Social Nationalist Party. They aren't for a race, their ideology has to do with Syrian history. That of Babylon, Assyria, the Islamic and preislamic periods. Aswell as the modern era. They are not, in fact, Nazis. They have significant political power today, and used to wield a more significant amount of influence during the Lebanese civil war.
 
Perhaps you should read something about the Syrian Social Nationalist Party. They aren't for a race, their ideology has to do with Syrian history. That of Babylon, Assyria, the Islamic and preislamic periods. Aswell as the modern era. They are not, in fact, Nazis. They have significant political power today, and used to wield a more significant amount of influence during the Lebanese civil war.
They have never been highly popular. They aren't Pan Arabist or Islamist, so I cannot see them taking power with a POD later than the 50s. Also, if it happened, every other arab state would be alarmed by their rise, and you could perhaps see sanctions cripple their economy. Also, to address the claim they are not Nazis, many people consider them to be Nazi Esque.
 
They have never been highly popular. They aren't Pan Arabist or Islamist, so I cannot see them taking power with a POD later than the 50s. Also, if it happened, every other arab state would be alarmed by their rise, and you could perhaps see sanctions cripple their economy. Also, to address the claim they are not Nazis, many people consider them to be Nazi Esque.

Just because many people consider some group to be something does not mean that they are that thing. From an ideological point of view they in someways polar opposite based on their differing National origin theories.
 
Also, to address the claim they are not Nazis, many people consider them to be Nazi Esque.

Just because many people consider some group to be something does not mean that they are that thing. From an ideological point of view they in someways polar opposite based on their differing National origin theories.

they did suffer the good fortune that Nazis (read Hitler) were committed to Italians and did not actively support Arab Nationalists?
 
they did suffer the good fortune that Nazis (read Hitler) were committed to Italians and did not actively support Arab Nationalists?

Well, in Iraq there were pro-Axis groups that launched a coup d'etat.

There was also the Stern Group of Pro-axis fascists and other fascistic Zionist groups.
 
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