WI: Sweden was given Prussia at the end of the 30 Years War?

I saw somebody mention it in a thread a while back and was wondering a) if it was plausible and b) what the effects would be.
 
Why Sweden would be given to Prussia and would Prussia even want that? And even if Sweden woudl be given to Prussia, it will has hellish job to keep that.
 
I saw somebody mention it in a thread a while back and was wondering a) if it was plausible and b) what the effects would be.
Totally implausible. It couldn't be enforced and would be far too large an acquisition. Sweden's own population wasn't very large. It would also upset the balance of power in the region.
 
Why Sweden would be given to Prussia and would Prussia even want that? And even if Sweden woudl be given to Prussia, it will has hellish job to keep that.
They meant that Sweden gets Prussia, not the other way around.

As for the question in the OP, I think it would be duable if Poland-Lithuania participated more widely in the 30YW (rather than just fighting Sweden) and lost. Sweden actually did dominate most Prussian cities during this time period, after the Treaty of Altmark, so it is known that they had an interest in it.
 
Just once I want the answer to be "They give it back at once and declare war on whomever gave it to them......." (Every single time I read: X given Y at the end of War J.)
 
First of all, the Duchy of Prussia (East Prussia) was a vassal to the Polish crown and not part of the Holy Roman Empire. While Sweden had invaded the region and held ports and customs points in it 1629-1635 as part of the armstice between Poland and Sweden, keeping all of it was completely out of the question.

If we are talking Brandenburg, it is very, very unlikely. Brandeburg is an elector in the Holy Roman Empire, and none in Germany wanted a foreign elector. Secondly, the reason Sweden was awarded Vorpommern and Bremen was that both those regions has ruling houses that had become extinct - awarding them to someone else was thus possible. That was not possible with Brandenburg, which had a healthy ruling house and was on the winning side of the Treaty of Westphalia, gaining among other thigns Halberstadt and Hinterpommern.
 
First of all, the Duchy of Prussia (East Prussia) was a vassal to the Polish crown and not part of the Holy Roman Empire. While Sweden had invaded the region and held ports and customs points in it 1629-1635 as part of the armstice between Poland and Sweden, keeping all of it was completely out of the question.

If we are talking Brandenburg, it is very, very unlikely. Brandeburg is an elector in the Holy Roman Empire, and none in Germany wanted a foreign elector. Secondly, the reason Sweden was awarded Vorpommern and Bremen was that both those regions has ruling houses that had become extinct - awarding them to someone else was thus possible. That was not possible with Brandenburg, which had a healthy ruling house and was on the winning side of the Treaty of Westphalia, gaining among other thigns Halberstadt and Hinterpommern.
Nobody wanted a foreign elector? Well, they had plenty of foreign electors all the time, the King of Britain being the most famous, but also the Elector of Saxony was also for a time King of Poland as well. One can claim in both cases it was German families over foreign lands, but in both cases Poland and Britain were stronger nations and had more sway over the King than the German lands those kings came from.
 
Nobody wanted a foreign elector? Well, they had plenty of foreign electors all the time, the King of Britain being the most famous, but also the Elector of Saxony was also for a time King of Poland as well. One can claim in both cases it was German families over foreign lands, but in both cases Poland and Britain were stronger nations and had more sway over the King than the German lands those kings came from.

In both those cases, a German Elector gained another throne, not the other way around.
 

ben0628

Banned
I could be wrong but wasn't the elector of Brandenburg at the time Father in law of Gustavus Adolphus?
 
I could be wrong but wasn't the elector of Brandenburg at the time Father in law of Gustavus Adolphus?

Gustav II Adolf was married to Maria Eleonora of Brandenburg. Her father, Johann Sigismund died 1620. Her brother, Georg Wilhlem, died 1640.

Gustav II Adolf himself died 1632, while the peace of Westphalia was 1648.
 
Did you read my post or just the first sentence and get all huffy and write a response to which I already addressed your concern?

I did not intend to sound huffy. I read your entire post.

It is still a wide difference between a German elector gaining a foreign throne and his House making it their main posession (due to it being richer and more powerful than his German electorate) and giving an electorate to a foreign monarch already established in their own country.

One can note that Brunswick-Lübeck/Hannover and Britain was kept completely separate both as political and economical entities - the only real advantage for the monarch was that he could hire German mercenaries and German armies (such as the one from Hesse) more easily. The Hannovers tried to use the British fleet to provoke a war between Britain and Sweden after 1710, but was unable to - it was only Hannover that was at war with Sweden, not Britain.

The Polish throne likewise did not really help the Electors of Saxony that much due to the decentralistion of the Commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania.
 
Nobody wanted a foreign elector? Well, they had plenty of foreign electors all the time, the King of Britain being the most famous, but also the Elector of Saxony was also for a time King of Poland as well. One can claim in both cases it was German families over foreign lands, but in both cases Poland and Britain were stronger nations and had more sway over the King than the German lands those kings came from.
That's twice in nearly a thousand years. The Hanovers ruled both Hanover and Britain for less than a century and the same goes for Saxony-Poland.

No foreign power had ever annexed an elector prior to Napoleonic France (the electors that disappeared did so due to becoming inherited), which makes sense since the electors were second only to the emperor in the empire. It would be a rather bad precedent for any emperor to allow an elector to get conquered, as that meant the HRE would offer no real protection to any of its princes. Forget decentralization, the princes would just go off on their own and seek protectors rather than tie themselves to a rotting, sinking corpse.
 
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