WI Sweden sides with Napoleon in 1812?

WI Bernadotte wasn't the ungrateful scoundrel he was and sided with his emperor in 1812 after Napoleon's retreat from Russia? Would the Battle of Leipzig turn out differently if Napoleon had a few more Swedish divisions at his disposal?
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Well Denmark would keep Norway, and may get Sweden after Napoleons defeat. But I doubt it would make a big difference military for Napoleon.
 
Sweden never gets across the Baltic as the RN controls it. The big warships off the coast was one of the reasons Bernadotte turned, and they kind of make any other choice a wee bit suicidal.
 
After the Napoleon's retreat from Russia, he had been severly weakened. Even if the Swedes allied Napoleon, he would still have a huge problem with the whole of Europe (except Denmark and French puppet states) turning against him.
Besides, as was mentionned, the Swedes would have trouble crossing the Baltic as the Royal Navy's in the way. The Swedes still have their fleet of course, but the Royal Navy was clearly superior.

A more interisting question would be what if Bernadotte had invaded Finland as Napoleon had asked him to when he invaded Russia? The Russians would have to send some troops there because the Swedes could threaten St.Petersburg. This might not guarantee Napoleon's victory in Russia, but it could increase his chances after the Russian Campaign.
 
After the Napoleon's retreat from Russia, he had been severly weakened. Even if the Swedes allied Napoleon, he would still have a huge problem with the whole of Europe (except Denmark and French puppet states) turning against him.
Besides, as was mentionned, the Swedes would have trouble crossing the Baltic as the Royal Navy's in the way. The Swedes still have their fleet of course, but the Royal Navy was clearly superior.

A more interisting question would be what if Bernadotte had invaded Finland as Napoleon had asked him to when he invaded Russia? The Russians would have to send some troops there because the Swedes could threaten St.Petersburg. This might not guarantee Napoleon's victory in Russia, but it could increase his chances after the Russian Campaign.


Could the Swedes cross the Gulf of Bothnia any better than the Baltic, in the face of the RN?

They might be able to do so up north, by crossing the ice, but that's a long way from anywhere important.
 
More interesting than the military implications is that IIRC Bernadotte was one of the leading advocates for Alexander to stay in the fight when he considered to throw in the towel in 1812. Loose Finland and get a credible threat to St Petersburg could tip Alexander into the negotiate camp.
 
WI Bernadotte wasn't the ungrateful scoundrel he was and sided with his emperor in 1812 after Napoleon's retreat from Russia?

What's all this "ungrateful scoundrel" rubbish?

Bernadotte was Crown Prince and Regent of Sweden, so his first duty was to be a good Swede. If he believed that taking the Allied side was in the best interests of Sweden, (which it surely was after the Retreat from Moscow, if not before), that superceded any duty or obligation to Napoleon or even to France as a country.
 
The reason we didnt side with him was that the newly adopted crownprince Bernadotte and Napoleon hated eachothers guts. Bernadotte also realised that attacking and retaking Finland only would mean more wars on two fronts. Thats why he decided that Norway was a better option.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
If Bernadotte had been at good odds with Napoleon, he would never have been elected Swedish Crown Prince. The Swedes would have chosen someone else, since they had no desire to side with Napoleon.
 
Well, most of our queens up to and including our current queen have/had German as their first language.

Gustav IIIs parents never learned swedish.


And famously, George I and Prime Minister Walpole had to converse in bad Latin, for lack of any other common language. They got by, though.
 
Actually Bernadotte didn't have a very good record as a battlefield commander, but because he was a former French Marshall his coalition partners in 1812 gave him command of a coalition force that he didn't do all that much with. With Sweden out of the coalition then it is possible that the Russians, Austrians and Prussians might do even better than was the case historically.
 
Well Denmark would keep Norway, and may get Sweden after Napoleons defeat. But I doubt it would make a big difference military for Napoleon.

Wasn't Christian Frederik proposed as the King of Sweden in 1809 in OTL? If Bernadotte's lost, then I think Sweden may ditch him for Christian. So the outcome is a personal union of the Scandinavia nations.
 
Wasn't Christian Frederik proposed as the King of Sweden in 1809 in OTL? If Bernadotte's lost, then I think Sweden may ditch him for Christian. So the outcome is a personal union of the Scandinavia nations.
I do seem to remember hearing of that, though it was for 1810.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Wasn't Christian Frederik proposed as the King of Sweden in 1809 in OTL? If Bernadotte's lost, then I think Sweden may ditch him for Christian. So the outcome is a personal union of the Scandinavia nations.

Prince Charles August of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenborg was crown prince of Sweden in a periode, but died premature and was followed by Bernadotte, but it showed a willingness from the Swedes to take a Danish prince*. I don't think they would be above making Christian Frederik crown prince, if he gurantee the rights of Ståndsriksdagen and doesn't try to force absolutism on Sweden.

*While Charles August wasn't a close member of the royal family he was part of the Danish court, and was closely related to some of the most important Danish and Holsteinian noble families
 
Prince Charles August of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenborg was crown prince of Sweden in a periode, but died premature and was followed by Bernadotte, but it showed a willingness from the Swedes to take a Danish prince*. I don't think they would be above making Christian Frederik crown prince, if he gurantee the rights of Ståndsriksdagen and doesn't try to force absolutism on Sweden.

*While Charles August wasn't a close member of the royal family he was part of the Danish court, and was closely related to some of the most important Danish and Holsteinian noble families


Could make a difference to the Schleswig-Holstein business fifty years later.

The Augustenburgs were the alternative "German" candidates for ruler of the Duchies. Depending what rules of succession you go by, they had a claim to the Danish throne as well. If they are ruling Sweden and Denmark opts for them, we do indeed get a united Scandinavia.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Could make a difference to the Schleswig-Holstein business fifty years later.

The Augustenburgs were the alternative "German" candidates for ruler of the Duchies. Depending what rules of succession you go by, they had a claim to the Danish throne as well. If they are ruling Sweden and Denmark opts for them, we do indeed get a united Scandinavia.

Charles August died in 1810, Christian Frederik was the heir to the Danish throne making the later king of Sweden would result in a personal union in 1839. But in many way I really doubt thaqt the Fist Schleswig War if Denmark still had Norway and was in personal union with Sweden. Even if we doesn't look at the economical effects in 1820ties, the resulting state would simply look a lot more threatning for the Ritterschaft.
 
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