WI Sweden and Britain can agree?

The most often forgotten parts of the Napoleonic Wars were the happenings in Scandinavia (well....outside Scandinavia at least).
In 1808 French alligned Russia invaded Britain friendly Sweden and conquered Finland.
Though we may look at later times and think Sweden never stood any chance in fact at the time it was just circumstances that were against them. The Russian army was rather small and struggled quite a bit in Finland whilst the Swedes had to keep the vast majority of their army in the south keeping an eye on their old enemy Denmark, and of course the devourer of nations; France.

To quote the genocide:
On May 26, a British fleet manned by 14,000 troops entered the port of Gothenburg but, due to various disagreements with the king, never landed and proceeded to fight the French in Spain after leaving 16 battleships and 20 other ships at Sweden's disposal.

...now....This is interesting....
Anyone know what these disagreements were out of interest? (modern Swedish history isn't my area)

So...what if the British do send a large number of land forces in defence of Sweden in addition to the fleet (which proved very handy)? It doesn't sound like too many men compared to what was going on in Europe at the time but for Scandinavia it was quite significant.
Could Sweden and Britain win?- taking Norway at their leisure, fighting off Russia, perhaps even making advances?

Could Russia be defeated?
Or would it turn against Napoleon as per OTL?
Could this removal of troops from Spain have an effect?
 
Bump?
No Napoleonics interest?
I think the idea of Britain supporting Sweden more here is rather interesting and its never been done before...
 
The obvious question is what happens if British support for Sweden sufficiently strengthens the partnership between France and Russia.

If Napoleon does not turn on Russia British prospects for winning just took a severe blow.
 
One of the reasons the British left was that Sveaboreg had fallen, the elites in Åbo had sworn loyalty to the Czar and the Swedes were quite defeatist. The Brits simply did not believe there was much fight left in the Swedes.

If you can keep Sveaborg (and the coastal navy there) from falling in Russian hands, then things will surely be different.

I am working on a timeline of this myself, with af Klercker retaining command in Finland with Field Marshal Klingspor being out of the picture. It is in Swedish right now, and I have gotten up September 1808, with a decisive battle of Svartholm about to happen. I plan to start translating and posting it this weekend.
 
The obvious question is what happens if British support for Sweden sufficiently strengthens the partnership between France and Russia.

If Napoleon does not turn on Russia British prospects for winning just took a severe blow.

No, I don't think so. The Russians were annoyed with the continental system and was on the way out of its forced alliance with France. The whole was was very half-hearted from Russia's side, attacking in winter with only 24 000 men against the biggest and most impregnable fortress in Europe? They attacked because Napoleon wanted them to, to force Sweden into the continental system. Taking Finland only came on the agenda after the great initial success early in the war.
 
One of the reasons the British left was that Sveaboreg had fallen, the elites in Åbo had sworn loyalty to the Czar and the Swedes were quite defeatist. The Brits simply did not believe there was much fight left in the Swedes.

If you can keep Sveaborg (and the coastal navy there) from falling in Russian hands, then things will surely be different.

I am working on a timeline of this myself, with af Klercker retaining command in Finland with Field Marshal Klingspor being out of the picture. It is in Swedish right now, and I have gotten up September 1808, with a decisive battle of Svartholm about to happen. I plan to start translating and posting it this weekend.

Cool.
Even if its in Swedish (why are you doing that BTW? Theres a Swedish AH community out there somewhere? Or just so its easier to work out your thoughts?) I'd love to see it.

Thinking about it for involving one of the supposed staples of AH (Napoleon wins) the Napoleonic wars in general are massively underdone on this forum...

No, I don't think so. The Russians were annoyed with the continental system and was on the way out of its forced alliance with France. The whole was was very half-hearted from Russia's side, attacking in winter with only 24 000 men against the biggest and most impregnable fortress in Europe? They attacked because Napoleon wanted them to, to force Sweden into the continental system. Taking Finland only came on the agenda after the great initial success early in the war.
I agree...ish.
Its a weird one. If the war drags on and Sweden looks like winning the Russians may begin to think their prestige is at stake and take a big interest- it becomes they're fighting Britain/Sweden for Finland, the Continental system is secondary.
And then knowing the Swedish king if it looks like Sweden is winning he probally wouldn't be happy with a return to the status quo and would want to press on for old Finland or even if he's feeling mad and boaty enough Estland...
Of course, some British money and promise of gains elsewhere could always sway Russia into agreeing to sweep this Napoleon forced half arsed war under the carpet but....what else is there Russia wants? Not much at all....
 
Last edited:
If you can keep Sveaborg (and the coastal navy there) from falling in Russian hands, then things will surely be different.
Maybe have the British arrive a month earlier, or have a less Defeatist Guy in Charge at Sveaborg.
Of course, some British money and promise of gains elsewhere could always sway Russia into agreeing to sweep this Napoleon forced half arsed war under the carpet but....what else is there Russia wants? Not much at all....
Maybe a Russian pull out in the North in return for a Freer Hand around the Black Sea.
 
Russia wanted influence in Europe. The 17th century was a long quest for the sea, the 18th century was a long quest to be an influential grand power in Europe, and it was really not until the Russian troops marched into Paris 1814 that Russia climbed onto the world stage as an equal grand power. Before that, Russia was considered a large local power, the concern of Austria and perhaps Prussia but no-one else.

Finland did not figure that much in Russian planning and strategic goals at the time - this was also one of the reasons that the Soviets went to Warsaw 1920 but left Helsingfors/Helsinki alone.
 
Top