WI: Suzanne de Bourbon Born Male?

Suzanne de Bourbon was the only child of Anne of Beaujeu, Regent of France, and Pierre II, Duc de Bourbon (unless you count her brother, Charles, supposedly born in 1476, but sources conflict as to whether he died at birth or lived or even existed at all, for the sake of discussion, we'll assume he's stillborn). Her inheritance was the cause of much legal wrangling, with her being the only heiress to the main line of the house of Bourbon. Her mother got her acknolwedged as heiress in her own right and this pissed off her betrothed, the comte de Montpensier, who refused to accept his inheritance "in right of his wife". Suzanne wound up engaged to the duc d'Alençon (OTL husband of Marguerite d'Angoulême) instead, and then, after the comte de Montpensier died, married to his younger brother, the duc de Bourbon (the famous Constable de Bourbon of OTL). Unfortunately, they had no surviving children, and the inheritance was caught up in legal struggles between the Constable and the king's mother (Louise of Savoy) for years.

But..what if Suzanne de Bourbon were a boy. Let's call her Pierre - after her father (she'd probably be Charles, but "Pierre" avoids having confusion with her uncle, Charles VIII; her husband, Charles, Constable de Bourbon; and her fictional/stillborn brother). Pierre would be undisputed heir to his father's lands (so no legal wrangling to get her acknowledged as heir in the first place, no deals between Anne of Beaujeu and Louis XII, no drawn out lawsuits regarding the inheritance etc).

How does this affect things?

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Could Pierre here marry Margaret of Angouleme? Or a Navarrese girl?
Pierre and Marguerite would be a great match and if Francis became king then he would be the second most powerful man in France. And if he was even half as clever as his mother were then he would manage things splendidly.
 
Revisiting this topic. How would Pierre's existence affect the Valois-Bourbon relations? Either in a scenario where Charles VIII does not find a door low enough to bang his head on, or where Louis XII still succeeds. OTL Louis XII cut a deal (IIRC) with Anne of Beaujeu, here, that deal doesn't need to be made. What exactly (besides the acknowledgement as heiress) was in that deal anyway (i.e. what did Anne contribute to the deal, her daughter as heiress in exhange for...)?

@FouDuRoy
 
Revisiting this topic. How would Pierre's existence affect the Valois-Bourbon relations? Either in a scenario where Charles VIII does not find a door low enough to bang his head on, or where Louis XII still succeeds. OTL Louis XII cut a deal (IIRC) with Anne of Beaujeu, here, that deal doesn't need to be made. What exactly (besides the acknowledgement as heiress) was in that deal anyway (i.e. what did Anne contribute to the deal, her daughter as heiress in exhange for...)?

@FouDuRoy
The agreement was Anne’s support to Louis’ succession (and likely annulment and remarriage) in exchange for Suzanne being made as heiress of the Bourbon Estate.
Male Suzanne would NOT be called Charles as her elder brother would be still alive at her birth (as the death date for Charles, Count of Clermont is in 1498, likely shortky before or after his namesake uncle)
 
The agreement was Anne’s support to Louis’ succession (and likely annulment and remarriage) in exchange for Suzanne being made as heiress of the Bourbon Estate.
was Anne in a position to contest Louis' accession? Mean, what could she have legitimately have done? She couldn't be Queen Regnant of France and her husband couldn't claim the throne through her, could he?
 
Uh...France has JUST torn itself apart for a century saying she COULDN'T. Regardless of hee husband's power or capabilities
True. Anyway, who is "Pierre" likely to wed? As a man, he won't need to learn "court lessons" like his female counterpart did, perhaps leading to more clashes with Louis? He'll definitely need to take part in state affairs
 
True. Anyway, who is "Pierre" likely to wed? As a man, he won't need to learn "court lessons" like his female counterpart did, perhaps leading to more clashes with Louis? He'll definitely need to take part in state affairs
Catherine of Navarre jr. or Madeleine Dela Tour de Auvergne.
 
And why not? Men had to have manners at court as much as women did.

Considering he'd be a pre-pubescent/teenager for most of Louis' reign, how serious are these clashes "likely" to be?
While he will be young for Louis' reign, he won't be young enough to not be able to potentially seriously offend him...
 
Seriously offend? From a teenager? Louis fortunately isn't François I that will be petty enough to turn such an insult into a festering wound.
Thankfully. Let's see...Suzanne IOTL had her fiancé mortally offend her father, this won't happen ITTL. I assume Pierre, like Suzanne, also tours through the Bourbon domains frequently?
 
was Anne in a position to contest Louis' accession? Mean, what could she have legitimately have done? She couldn't be Queen Regnant of France and her husband couldn't claim the throne through her, could he?
She would surely be able to give him a lot of troubles if she wanted
 
Thankfully. Let's see...Suzanne IOTL had her fiancé mortally offend her father, this won't happen ITTL. I assume Pierre, like Suzanne, also tours through the Bourbon domains frequently?
That was a totally different question and was tied to the inheritance so nothing like that
 
She would surely be able to give him a lot of troubles if she wanted
I'm sure Anne could. After all, one need only look at how much of a nuisance the Constable de Bourbon falling out with François I was. But the question is whether a) she'd risk the biscuit to make trouble for Louis if it endangered her son's inheritance; and b) who would back her? The League of the Public Weal members are dead. The Habsburgs could get involved, but would they? The Bourbons themselves are not necessarily all singing from the same songsheet IIRC.
 
I'm sure Anne could. After all, one need only look at how much of a nuisance the Constable de Bourbon falling out with François I was. But the question is whether a) she'd risk the biscuit to make trouble for Louis if it endangered her son's inheritance; and b) who would back her? The League of the Public Weal members are dead. The Habsburgs could get involved, but would they? The Bourbons themselves are not necessarily all singing from the same songsheet IIRC.
There is also the question of Louis’ annulment and remarriage…
 
There is also the question of Louis’ annulment and remarriage…
Well, the annulment was granted in December 1498, Charles VIII died in April 1498. We don't know when Anne's oldest son died, beyond that it was sometime in 1498. Would Anne be in a position to challenge Louis' annulment? FWIG her brother was essentially moving more and more out of her "sphere of influence"
 
was Anne in a position to contest Louis' accession?
No. She was not.
If her husband was powerful enough, yes, he could
No man on Earth was powerful enough to do that.

Suzanne de Bourbon being male has two major consequences.
Firstly, the Constable of Bourbon would not switch sides. It means this good general would stay on Francis I's side instead of joining Charles V.
Secondly, there might be one or even two additonal surviving Bourbon branches with a better claim to the throne of France than the Bourbon-Vendôme. Why two? Because there are two Bourbon princes who may have descendants in this timeline: this "Pierre" and the Constable.
That would lead to major changes in the French Religious Wars. I am not sure Jeanne d'Albret would still marry Antoine de Bourbon. Actually, I am not even sure Jeanne d'Albret would still exist. Maybe Marguerite d'Angoulême would marry "Pierre" or the Constable instead of Henry II of Navarre (or even instead of Charles IV of Alençon).
 
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