WI : Surviving British Empire

GdwnsnHo

Banned
There have been numerous discussions on how the British Empire could survive on these forums, and the practicalities of this.

Now, with a combination of a chosen PoD I'm curious about what people think a modern British Empire would look like - economics, social structure, political power, relations with other world powers.

Any takers?

EDIT : It was mentioned that this is a bit vague, so in order to define what I require for 'British' and 'Empire', I have added the below

British - In order for this to be a British Empire, the ruling (and potentially ruled) classes must see the institutions and traditions that make up society and government as an extension or evolved permutation of the polity commonly referred to IOTL as the British Empire. Essentially being able to link itself back to the Kings of England, Wales and Scotland - and is recognized as such. (This does not exclude a republic, as the republic would be an evolved permutation of the original institution)

This does not mean it has to be governed from London, and it may no longer speak English as we know it, but an amalgam of English, Tamil, Swahili, French, hell, Mandarin - as long as it was an evolution that benefited the Empire. After all English is an amalgam of Anglo-Saxon, French, Cumbric and others, a continuing British Empire has precedence for using a new, more widely spoken, language when it is seen as more practical.

Empire - Whilst not a strict Empire as is commonly defined, we'll live with the term defined to represent a united polity with a single structure of governance, that can and is able to mobilise its resources to a directed purpose if required by the mechanisms of state, without having to make deniable diplomatic overtures to regions within the bounds of the Empire.

The only condition that I'd include, is that it should still control Britain, or have every intention to reclaim it. Whilst the Empire could continue with its original territories lost, I couldn't call a state with no interest in ruling Britain, the British Empire.
 
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Depends how large British Empire is and how it survives. Survival of the empire is pretty much impossible when there is multiple nations and different cultures.
 
And it depends also on what you call empire.

To a large extent, the Commonwealth is the new avatar of the british empire : the only acceptable way it could last in a world that praised national sovereignty over all.

Going further does not seem realistic considering the fact that there was a political, military, economic and diplomatic superpower call the USA that would never accepted, after 1945, that the colonies of the british empire remained closed to US influence and relations.

That was one of the powerful reasons why colonial domination was doomed. One can maintain colonial domination only if one retains some kind of world supremacy.
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
Depends how large British Empire is and how it survives. Survival of the empire is pretty much impossible when there is multiple nations and different cultures.

Hence the free choice of PoD. - I was half as curious as to what different people's British Empires might look like, depending on the PoD they chose.

And it depends also on what you call empire.

To a large extent, the Commonwealth is the new avatar of the british empire : the only acceptable way it could last in a world that praised national sovereignty over all.

Going further does not seem realistic considering the fact that there was a political, military, economic and diplomatic superpower call the USA that would never accepted, after 1945, that the colonies of the british empire remained closed to US influence and relations.

That was one of the powerful reasons why colonial domination was doomed. One can maintain colonial domination only if one retains some kind of world supremacy.

This is potentially a way to do this - though I'd have to define a surviving Empire as having a single united polity, be it a unitary state, a confederation, a federal union, a neo-feudal state. The Commonwealth doesn't really count IMO.

Well, this simply sates that there needs to be a PoD which keeps the British Empire as a Hyperpower, or equally strong as the USA (at least) and with good relations.
 
The best chance for a surviving British Empire is to avert the American Revolution. The butterfly effect from this would be massive (probably no French Revolution, for starters), but it seems reasonable to assume that the British Empire would be in a much better position going into the industrial revolution if it controlled 1/3 of the world's coal.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
You have to provide a definition

There have been numerous discussions on how the British Empire could survive on these forums, and the practicalities of this.

Now, with a combination of a chosen PoD I'm curious about what people think a modern British Empire would look like - economics, social structure, political power, relations with other world powers.

Any takers?

You have to provide a definition; otherwise, too much is open to interpretation.

Define "British" and define "Empire"...

Does London have to be the capital? Does English have to be the main language? Does there have to be an emperor or empress?

Etc.

Best
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
The best chance for a surviving British Empire is to avert the American Revolution. The butterfly effect from this would be massive (probably no French Revolution, for starters), but it seems reasonable to assume that the British Empire would be in a much better position going into the industrial revolution if it controlled 1/3 of the world's coal.

That would be pretty potent indeed - plus having the extra territory and enterprise, I don't see it unlikely that you'd see better trains overall, as both British Isles and Colonial designs would benefit from national preference.

You have to provide a definition; otherwise, too much is open to interpretation.

Define "British" and define "Empire"...

Does London have to be the capital? Does English have to be the main language? Does there have to be an emperor or empress?

I'll admit I was vague - I'll define these here and then edit the post above to add some criteria.

British - In order for this to be a British Empire, the ruling (and potentially ruled) classes must see the institutions and traditions that make up society and government as an extension or evolved permutation of the polity commonly referred to IOTL as the British Empire. Essentially being able to link itself back to the Kings of England, Wales and Scotland - and is recognized as such. (This does not exclude a republic, as the republic would be an evolved permutation of the original institution)

This does not mean it has to be governed from London, and it may no longer speak English as we know it, but an amalgam of English, Tamil, Swahili, French, hell, Mandarin - as long as it was an evolution that benefited the Empire. After all English is an amalgam of Anglo-Saxon, French, Cumbric and others, a continuing British Empire has precedence for using a new, more widely spoken, language when it is seen as more practical.

Empire - Whilst not a strict Empire as is commonly defined, we'll live with the term defined to represent a united polity with a single structure of governance, that can and is able to mobilise its resources to a directed purpose if required by the mechanisms of state, without having to make deniable diplomatic overtures to regions within the bounds of the Empire.

The only condition that I'd include, is that it should still control Britain, or have every intention to reclaim it. Whilst the Empire could continue with its original territories lost, I couldn't call a state with no interest in ruling Britain, the British Empire.
 
I could see some sort of an EU/NATO (rather lighter on the EU and heavier on the NATO) hybrid empire between the UK and several of the more "loyal" regions coming to fruition if everyone plays their cards right and there isn't a world war that almost breaks Britain.

Anything beyond that might be difficult, there are just too many conflicting political and economic aspirations from too many disparate groups.
 
Maybe some sort of once proposed Imperial Federation, with white dominions sticking more closely with mother country?

After all their bond was pretty tight all the way up to the WW2, when they drifted more into US orbit.

Or go crazy with Dominion statuses for colonies and turn Commonwealth into a more tight economic and military alliance, sort of EU/NATO hybrid.
 
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