When New York and North Carolina failed to cast electors in the very first election, was the margin of victory considered half of what was cast or half of the total? I don't think in that matter it made any difference because Washington was clearly first and Adams clearly second, but I wonder if there was any statement from then on what counts. I suppose the abstention of the Southern States in 1864 mark a better precedent in that regards. To prevent declaring the votes of Florida unnecessary and declaring Gore the victor, I think the Court would have to specify in their ruling that the House and Senate will decide the matter. I suppose a POD would be Thurgood Marshall clinging to his Supreme Court seat, to be replaced by the incoming Clinton administration and then miraculously everything else remains the same.
WI: Supreme Court declares no winner in Florida in 2000?
- Thread starter Superman
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hipper
Banned
"It's not the people who vote that count. It's the people who count the votes."
Some 56,000 so-called "overvotes" were examined in the Washington Post survey. All of these ballot papers were ruled to be invalid votes on November 7 because they contained two or more punched holes in the presidential section of the ballot. Twelve Florida counties used voting machines where voting was by punch cards in this way, and eight of them participated in the survey: Broward, Highlands, Hillsborough, Marion, Miami-Dade, Palm Beach, Pasco and Pinellas. None of the ballot papers in the survey formed part of any official count or recount.
The research shows that 45,608 of the 56,000 ballot papers (87% of the total) contained votes for Mr Gore, compared with 17,098 containing votes for Mr Bush (33%). In 1,367 cases, voters punched every hole except that for Mr Bush.
Some 56,000 so-called "overvotes" were examined in the Washington Post survey. All of these ballot papers were ruled to be invalid votes on November 7 because they contained two or more punched holes in the presidential section of the ballot. Twelve Florida counties used voting machines where voting was by punch cards in this way, and eight of them participated in the survey: Broward, Highlands, Hillsborough, Marion, Miami-Dade, Palm Beach, Pasco and Pinellas. None of the ballot papers in the survey formed part of any official count or recount.
The research shows that 45,608 of the 56,000 ballot papers (87% of the total) contained votes for Mr Gore, compared with 17,098 containing votes for Mr Bush (33%). In 1,367 cases, voters punched every hole except that for Mr Bush.
No, there was not equal protection.
I remember in one case someone was purged because when he was four years old someone with the same name committed armed robbery in another state!
And when the corporation hired to purge the rolls came back to Katherine Harris' office and said, hey, what do we do when the date of criminal conviction is earlier than the date of birth? And they were told that for purposes of some final printout just delete and don't show the age!
And similarly they did not check social security numbers for persons purged. So, wide-spread aggressive cheating by the Secretary of State's office.
But they did check race. Aha. I think the legal term is suspect category. So, clear violation of equal protection. That's the easy part. The harder question is remedy. I see several possibilities:
1) The Court orders Florida to hold a new election if this can be completed within a week before January 20th, or
2) The Court might rule that the new president taking office will be delayed a week or two. They rule getting it right is this important,
3) Florida electoral returns are thrown out as invalid. For Senator, U.S. Representatives, and all state offices, new elections will be held. For the presidency, Florida's electoral votes will not count for 2000, and a victor will be decided by a majority of all other electoral votes.
4) Since Florida's presidential vote is extremely close and it's impossible to determine the result if people wrongfully excluded had been allowed to vote, Florida's electoral votes will be split 50-50. (This might be perceived as a less harsh result than simply throwing them out altogether.)
There is no Constitutional requirement for the members of the electoral college to selected by popular vote. They could order a new selection, but not specify the method of that selection. In fact, I think the Republican controlled Legislature was planning on selecting the electors when the final decision came down.
Can't see this happening. There is no Constitutional provision for delaying the inauguration and it establishes a dangerous precedent.
Not going to happen. They might find that the popular vote was invalid, but I seriously doubt they are going to completely deny the state its place in the electoral college. They might order the state to re-select the members of the electoral college, but as I pointed out, the method is totally under the control of the states.
Again, I can't see the Supreme Court doing this. It would be a serious expansion of their powers and might well undermine public confidence in the electoral system.
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Bill
But, what about the people wrongfully excluded from voting?
Now, it might be that the Gore legal team didn't bring this up because it seemed like the recount was the only actionable item. But I don't think the Court should have been limited by this. They probably received friends of the court briefs. And in addition, as someone pointed out on the first page, the United States Supreme Court is, or at least should be, both a court of law and a court of equity.
My personal leaning, the conduct of the state of Florida was egregious enough, that the state government probably should be embarrassed. Throw out the votes entirely. The presidency is decided by a majority of the remaining electoral votes.
Now, it might be that the Gore legal team didn't bring this up because it seemed like the recount was the only actionable item. But I don't think the Court should have been limited by this. They probably received friends of the court briefs. And in addition, as someone pointed out on the first page, the United States Supreme Court is, or at least should be, both a court of law and a court of equity.
My personal leaning, the conduct of the state of Florida was egregious enough, that the state government probably should be embarrassed. Throw out the votes entirely. The presidency is decided by a majority of the remaining electoral votes.
Considering the state government also headed up the purges of the voter rolls, this seems highly plausible.
I'd forgotten about Katherine bloody Harris. I was so happy when she made such an almighty hash of her Senate campaign.