WI Sultan Selim I was defeated by Mamluks in 1516?

Selim I set forward to Egypt in early 1516, and on August 20, 1516 encamped on the plain of Marj Dabiq, a day's journey north of Halab, awaited there the enemy's approach; for on this plain it was that the Empire's fate was now to be decidedhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marj_Dabiq#cite_note-Mameluke-0. The Egyptians, except the royal Mamluks whom the Sultan sought to spare, fought well; and at one time the Turkish outlook was so bad, that Selim I had thoughts of falling backhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marj_Dabiq#cite_note-Mameluke-0. But in the end, the Ottomans, superior both in numbers and artillery gained the dayhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marj_Dabiq#cite_note-Mameluke-0. Khayr Baig hastened the end by signaling retreathttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marj_Dabiq#cite_note-Mameluke-0.
WI Selim I lost his nerve during battle and retreated defeated? How is this altering History? Any thoughts?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marj_Dabiq#cite_note-Mameluke-0
 
Selim I set forward to Egypt in early 1516, and on August 20, 1516 encamped on the plain of Marj Dabiq, a day's journey north of Halab, awaited there the enemy's approach; for on this plain it was that the Empire's fate was now to be decidedhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marj_Dabiq#cite_note-Mameluke-0. The Egyptians, except the royal Mamluks whom the Sultan sought to spare, fought well; and at one time the Turkish outlook was so bad, that Selim I had thoughts of falling backhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marj_Dabiq#cite_note-Mameluke-0. But in the end, the Ottomans, superior both in numbers and artillery gained the dayhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marj_Dabiq#cite_note-Mameluke-0. Khayr Baig hastened the end by signaling retreathttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marj_Dabiq#cite_note-Mameluke-0.
WI Selim I lost his nerve during battle and retreated defeated? How is this altering History? Any thoughts?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marj_Dabiq#cite_note-Mameluke-0

This is another case of Wikipedia being pretty far off. That was not a close battle. It was actually noteworthy as proof that traditional cavalry charges were useless against modern artillery and regular infantry with firearms. The Ottomans were never in danger of losing, and nobody was going to lose their nerve, especially not Yavuz Sultan Selim (yavuz meaning "steadfast"), probably by far the greatest military commander in Ottoman history.

A better POD would be treachery. If the Mamelukes could arrange for the assassination of Selim, the Ottomans would most likely withdraw to deal with the succession. Suleyman is 20 at this time - old enough to assume the throne, but it might be a little harder to consolidate his position at this time - I think he may have been governor of Kaffa in the Crimea.

The net effect for the Mamelukes is not great since they were pretty far gone by this time. I think the big winner is the Safavids, who may have some extra time to become the Big Bad. The Mamelukes may be able to prolong their end through diplomatic means, but they will not last long against the Ottomans, and they are too rich and too easy a target to pass up.
 
The net effect for the Mamelukes is not great since they were pretty far gone by this time. I think the big winner is the Safavids, who may have some extra time to become the Big Bad. The Mamelukes may be able to prolong their end through diplomatic means, but they will not last long against the Ottomans, and they are too rich and too easy a target to pass up.

Could the Safavids took the opportunity and attack the Ottomans while the latters were engaged in civil war? I agree that defeating them would be hard for them but they would weaken them enough... Maybe some European power enters the game later and finishes the job...
 
Could the Safavids took the opportunity and attack the Ottomans while the latters were engaged in civil war? I agree that defeating them would be hard for them but they would weaken them enough... Maybe some European power enters the game later and finishes the job...
Because of course the puny, weak Saracens are no match for the godlike and dominant European superpowers of the era... :rolleyes:
 
Because of course the puny, weak Saracens are no match for the godlike and dominant European superpowers of the era... :rolleyes:

As i said above winning the Ottoman is hardly a possibility but with the Ottoman Empire in civil war due to succession and with constant attacks from the Safavids they would weaken significally... Maybe Emperor Maximilian I or Ferdinand I could have attacked Ottomans amidst all this mayhem...
 
Could the Safavids took the opportunity and attack the Ottomans while the latters were engaged in civil war? I agree that defeating them would be hard for them but they would weaken them enough... Maybe some European power enters the game later and finishes the job...

Everyone always thinks there is going to be an Ottoman civil war. There is zero chance of there being an Ottoman civil war. The only difference is that the Ottoman army with withdraw if the Sultan is killed, and Suleyman will be younger and may have a slightly harder time asserting himself against the bureaucracy at first.

There was exactly one civil war in Ottoman history, and that was due to Timur and and defeat and Ankara; it was also early in Ottoman history, and the empire was greatly restructured after that in a way that would prevent civil wars.

I realize that your only purpose on this site is to develop scenarios that stop Islam, but you're not going to be able to realistically destroy the Ottoman Empire at it's height based on one single battle.

The Safavids established control over Iran in 1501. They are not in a position to destroy or severely weaken the Ottomans, but a few extra years to consolidate their power and influence could tie up the Ottomans more against Persia in the 16th c. I think the Mamelukes are such a rich and easy target that Suleyman will go for it, but even after that may find himself more oriented eastward than West. That might even be good for the empire in the long run. If Selim had lived longer I think Persia would have been toast.
 
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