WI: Successful Vinland?

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They'd need repeated infectations to build up much resistance.

If the Vikings introduce the animals to the native who adopt animal husbandry in their wake infections are gonna be endemic. Which will mean eventual resistance being built up among the survivors until it reaches near old world levels.
 
This has crossed my mind a few times, at the most logical step I see is this:

OTL - Leif invited his father (Erik the Red) on the voyage to Vinland, but according to legend, Erik fell off his horse on his way to the ship and took this as a bad sign, leaving his son to continue without his company.

TTL, have it so that Erik doesn't fall off his horse and have a good sign present itself. When he lands in Vinland, unlike his sons he takes the natives as neutral and seeing their ways not that much unlike their Viking rituals.

That sounds like an interesting idea.
 
If the Vikings introduce the animals to the native who adopt animal husbandry in their wake infections are gonna be endemic. Which will mean eventual resistance being built up among the survivors until it reaches near old world levels.

Of course, when did native americans adopt animals OTL?
 
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Indians mostly didn't survive long enough to be slaves, no resistance to disease.

That didn't stop locally significant slave trading through native intermediaries by English colonists in the late 17th c.

Destinations were Bahamas and the Caribbean colonies. Needless to say the mortality rate was near total but the trade continued until the resource ran short.
 
I've had similar thoughts in the past. My suggestion for a more viable Viking colony in North America would the site of Halifax.

Hmmm. Maybe not so much. Good harbour, but the first few colonizing expeditions starved en masse.

Still, in the little Ice Age, the thing to do is to go south.
 
Hmmm. Maybe not so much. Good harbour, but the first few colonizing expeditions starved en masse.

Still, in the little Ice Age, the thing to do is to go south.
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That starving problem was widespread. OTL expeditions/colony attempts, poorly supplied, apparently had nobody along who knew how to live off the land.
 
One thing that might happen even if the Vinland expedition turns into a viking colony, is that they might turn into hunters. That is so much more fun than mining and farming and if there is a drop in the population they might live from that alone, already more whalers than colonists to begin with.
 
One thing that might happen even if the Vinland expedition turns into a viking colony, is that they might turn into hunters. That is so much more fun than mining and farming and if there is a drop in the population they might live from that alone, already more whalers than colonists to begin with.
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Anybody know what the indians that far north grew/farmed at this time?
 
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That starving problem was widespread. OTL expeditions/colony attempts, poorly supplied, apparently had nobody along who knew how to live off the land.

The important thing to remember is that the Vikings are master mariners, a colony at Halifax will site them close to cod and halibut on the Grand Banks and whales in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.
 
The important thing to remember is that the Vikings are master mariners, a colony at Halifax will site them close to cod and halibut on the Grand Banks and whales in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

One of the major problems the actual Greenlanders had was not having enough ships of any quality.

It's not always as straightforward as saying "master mariners". But with local iron and timber it might work.
 
The important thing to remember is that the Vikings are master mariners, a colony at Halifax will site them close to cod and halibut on the Grand Banks and whales in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.
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I've always wondered why the Greenlanders didn't have ships. The Norse were on the mainland enough that they built houses, at least. There are supposed to be Norse finds around where the pilgrims landed. If they went that far south they had plenty of trees for ships.
 
One of the major problems the actual Greenlanders had was not having enough ships of any quality.

Not sure this is a problem. Greenlanders were sailing to N.A. for nearly 500 years to trade/resource/explore. Evidently they were keeping enough ships built (imported lumber from Markland/Vinland) to supply their own needs. Newfoundland and the surrounding areas have bog iron. Therefore everything you need to build ships (wool for sails from sheep).

a colony at Halifax will site them close to cod and halibut on the Grand Banks and whales in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

Ironically the fabled Vinland settlement of Hop was probably in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. Two reasons for this. During the winter there a whale washes up on the beach (they butcher it for food) - a whale none of the icelanders recognize. The only whale in the N.E. Atlantic the Icelanders would likely not recognize is the beluga whale (their range is not around iceland)...and there is an isolated pop. of belugas in the gulf of St. Lawrence.

That coupled with the fact that the Gulf has wild grapes along it's southern shores and butternuts (the nuts which were found on the waystation on the northern tip of Newfoundland), point to the fact that "Hop" (the vinland settlement) was in the gulf somewhere.


Anybody know what the indians that far north grew/farmed at this time?

They were hunter/gatherers at this time - i believe the three-sisters farming package was just reaching into what would OTL be modern canada during this era.


The important thing to remember is that the Vikings are master mariners,

This ^ x 100.
We know that OTL the Norsemen explored the east coast down through at least the Gulf if not further south, Hudson and James bay (and up those rivers a ways), and a good portion of the Canadian arctic (maybe even the entire northwest passage, for they reached Victoria island). They even reached Ellesmere and Axel-Heidelberg island (furthest north of the arctic islands). Some research suggests they even established a trading fort/summer camp (i've even heard it suggested that it was a permenant settlement, but have yet to see evidence for this) on Ellesmere island :O

If the settlement of Hop is successful and soon grows to any size, expect even more thorough explorations of the northeastern American continent and within a few generations they'll have likely scouted all the important areas east of the rockies that can be reached on rivers/lakes.

Cheers

Edit - as you can probably guess the Norsemen in America is a hobby of mine. I've reach and studied a good deal on this topic and if you have any questions please feel free to ask me. :)
 
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Edit - as you can probably guess the Norsemen in America is a hobby of mine. I've reach and studied a good deal on this topic and if you have any questions please feel free to ask me. :)

How well do you think the Norse would have gotten along with the natives of the time period, particularly regarding religion and culture? And supposing that a successful colony is set up (lets say enough to eventually become its own kingdom) what ripple effect do you think that would have?
 
How well do you think the Norse would have gotten along with the natives of the time period

Part of the problem in OTL's settlement attempts was that the men leading said settlements had profit firstmost in their minds for the most part. Which led to problems... as noted in OTL.

Whereas in the arctic regions N.A. it appears as if the norse got along quiet well with the natives - trading and co-existing for centuries.

What it really all boils down to was luck. Ironically. OTL's failure at settlement was really a series of unlucky events that led to the failure of the expedition. At first the settlement of Hop was trading with the natives, red clothe and milk (and probably other goods) for furs and native goods. So at first they got along quiet well. But then things went south. (Remember, while the sagas speak of real events they were written by christians after the fact, and likely played up the "pro" christian aspects while making the "barbarians" seem more evil, etc).

If things had avoided "going bad" for another year or two (and another convoy of settlers or two had arrived) and the population of Hop had risen from ~200 souls to 500 or so hundred, then, well... chances are the settlement would have lasted (that many people couldnt just quickly pack up and leave, and greenland couldnt take in that many people in one go). So the real trick would have been keeping friendly relations with the natives until there are enough norsemen there that they cannot be dislodged.

But overall, as seen in other places the norsemen settled...once the initial skirmishes wear off and trade begins, they seem to get along quiet well...

hope that answers your question :)
 
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