WI: Successful Middle-Francia under Italian rule

After Verdun, OTL Middle Francia did not survive by the combination of further division between Lothair's heirs and expansion from East Francia.

Let's assume a different Middle Francia ruled from Milan (maybe by Bernard of Italy, instead of the Lothairs) with a strong core in Northern Italy + Burgundy which is not divided by his heirs anymore (Bernard adopts Lombard customs in the heritage over the Frankish ones).

The geographical and cultural situation of such entity (many axis of expansion/influcence: W Septimania-Catalonia, E Carinthia, S Rome and Minor Lombardy, N Middle-Francia, Alamannia) would be good enough for future success under capable monarchs, isolating West Francia to the Ile-the-France and East Francia to Bavaria.
 
This is a temptative map about a successful Middle-Francia (as HRE) by year 1000:

Bernardia_1000.png


In orange, the Middle-Francia (became HRE); allies in yellow.
In pink, West Francia; allies in purple.
In pale blue, East Francia; allies in grey.
 
After Verdun, OTL Middle Francia did not survive by the combination of further division between Lothair's heirs and expansion from East Francia.

Let's assume a different Middle Francia ruled from Milan (maybe by Bernard of Italy, instead of the Lothairs) with a strong core in Northern Italy + Burgundy which is not divided by his heirs anymore (Bernard adopts Lombard customs in the heritage over the Frankish ones).

The geographical and cultural situation of such entity (many axis of expansion/influcence: W Septimania-Catalonia, E Carinthia, S Rome and Minor Lombardy, N Middle-Francia, Alamannia) would be good enough for future success under capable monarchs, isolating West Francia to the Ile-the-France and East Francia to Bavaria.

The main problem Middle Francia faced was its very long borders and difficult internal communications. Unless you can somehow find a way of solving this, I think a successful Middle Francia would be difficult to achieve.
 
I think you could make middle francia into South francia, keeping Italy burgundy, and alamania and any future expansion would come in those spheres
The northern parts of middle francia would likely go their own way or be subsumed into Germany/France
 
I think you could make middle francia into South francia, keeping Italy burgundy, and alamania and any future expansion would come in those spheres
The northern parts of middle francia would likely go their own way or be subsumed into Germany/France

Yes, I am better thinking about a TL about a Bernardian lineage based on Italy-Burgundy-Alps which could expand into peripheral areas when the 'other Francias' might clash between them.

I think Milan would be a perfect permanent capital for such entity. Submission and reduction of the Papal power in central Italy could be easier with a more Italian-centered power, as well as submission of Spoleto, Benevento...and earlier conquests of Byzantine exclaves.
 
This—Middle Francia was an idiotic split.

Could you get a four-way split if Charlemagne had another son? That would probably break off South Francia, which seems like it would have a better chance to survive. It would also weaken East Francia, which would help the other kingdoms along.
 
Could you get a four-way split if Charlemagne had another son? That would probably break off South Francia, which seems like it would have a better chance to survive. It would also weaken East Francia, which would help the other kingdoms along.

South Francia needs to be Italy IMHO. You can't simply overlook the Alps. But if TTL Middle Francia gets some some more land from West Francia I think it can be balanced enough.
 
South Francia needs to be Italy IMHO. You can't simply overlook the Alps. But if TTL Middle Francia gets some some more land from West Francia I think it can be balanced enough.

South Francia could be the sum of Italy and Burgundy, with some parts of Alamannia maybe.

No need of fourth son of Charlemagne/Louis. Enough if Bernard is not killed and takes part in the division along with his three cousins (and no Charles the Bald). This could be achieved with a simple PoD: Louis the Pious dies in the accident in the chapel of Aachen in 817 (he barely survived IOTL). Then his Empire is divided between his three sons and his nephew Bernard, who was already King of Italy (he could receive Burgundy from Lothair if he supported him as Emperor, and not his younger brothers).
 
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