WI successful 1806 British invasion of Buenos Aires/Rio de la Plata?

67th Tigers

Banned
The Peninsula Army was apparently originally slated for Argentina! Under Lt Gen Wellesley!!!

From the napoleon series website.

The British Army in Portugal and Spain: Its Order-of-Battle (June 1808 - April 1809)

Part I: The Disposable Force

By Ron McGuigan

In June 1808, the following were available for immediate service:
The force for South America, under the command of Lieutenant General Sir Arthur Wellesley, was assembled at Cork and Portsmouth. Its staff was Major Generals Alexander Mackenzie and Rowland Hill, Brigadier Generals Henry Fane and James Catlin Craufurd.

At Cork were the:
1/5th Regiment (990) 1/9th Regiment (833)
1/38th Regiment (957)
1/40th Regiment (843)
5/60th Regiment (936)
1/71st Regiment (903)
1/91st Regiment (917)
4 companies 2/95th Regiment (400)
4th Royal Veteran Battalion (737)
At Portsmouth:
The Royal Artillery was under Lieutenant Colonel William Robe and Major James Viney with:
Geary's Company, 5th Battalion Raynsford's Company, 8th Battalion (420)
The artillery had five 9 pounders, ten light 6 pounders, one 5½ inch heavy howitzer, and two 5½ light inch howitzers, all with limbers.
The 20th Light Dragoons (300) at Portsmouth.
At Harwich was Brigadier General Wroth Palmer Acland with:
2nd Regiment (813) 20th Regiment (689)
2 companies 1/95th Regiment (180)
Crawford's Company, 6th Battalion Royal Artillery
Tieling's 2nd Company KGL Artillery (430) attached
At Ramsgate was Brigadier General Robert Anstruther with:
2/9th Regiment (675) 2/43rd Regiment (861)
2/52nd Regiment (858)
97th Regiment (769)
At Gibraltar were Major General Brent Spencer and Brigadier General Miles Nightingall with:
29th Regiment (863) 1/32nd Regiment (941)
1/50th Regiment (1019)
1/82nd Regiment (991)
Lawson's Half-Company, 8th Battalion Royal Artillery (66). [The other half of Lawson's Company had gone to Sicily in May]
At Madeira were Major General William Beresford and Brigadier General Robert Meade with:
1/3rd Regiment 1/11th Regiment
Royal Artillery: Lieutenant Colonel George Salmon
Scott's Company 4th Battalion Royal Artillery Thornhill's Company 7th Battalion Royal Artillery
The Baltic Expedition

The force sent to Sweden in April 1808, the Baltic Expedition, was to be recalled. It was organized as:
Commanding the force: Lieutenant General Sir John Moore
Second-in-command: Lieutenant General John Hope
Adjutant General: Brigadier General Richard Stewart
Quarter Master General: Lieutenant Colonel George Murray
1st Division: Lieutenant General Alexander Mackenzie Fraser
Clinton's Brigade: Brigadier General Henry Clinton
1/4th Regiment (971) 1/28th Regiment (1020)
Highland Brigade: Colonel Alan Cameron
1/79th Regiment (995) 1/92nd Regt (934);
2nd Division: Major General John Murray
Langwerth's Brigade: Colonel Ernest Baron Langwerth
1st Line Battalion (725) 2nd Line Battalion (761);
Drieberg's Brigade: Colonel George de Drieberg
5th Line Battalion (753) 7th Line Battalion (679);
3rd Division or Reserve: Major General Edward Paget
1/52nd Regiment (951) 3 companies 1/95th Regiment (300);
Alten's Brigade: Colonel Charles Baron Alten
1st Light Battalion (907) 2nd Light Battalion (903);
3rd Light Dragoons KGL (570)
Garrison Company KGL (48);
Brigadier General John Sontang was attached to Moore's force.
Artillery: Lieutenant Colonel George Wood
Drummond's Company, 3rd Battalion Wilmot's Company, 3rd Battalion
Major Julius Hartmann KGL (829)
1st Company [Gesenius's] 4th Company [Heise's]
The artillery consisted of four medium 12 pounders, five heavy or long 6 pounders, sixteen light 6 pounders, two 8 inch howitzers, three 5½ inch heavy howitzers, four 5½ inch light howitzers, four 3 pounder mountain guns with two 10 inch iron mortars and six 5½ inch brass mortars on beds. There were only limbers for five heavy or long 6 pounders, five light 6 pounders, one 5½ inch heavy howitzer and one 5½ inch light howitzer.

 
K, so which of the two forces - the Army of the Peninsula or the Army of the Low Countries - do you think could be sacrificed for an invasion of Buenos Aires?
 

MrP

Banned
K, so which of the two forces - the Army of the Peninsula or the Army of the Low Countries - do you think could be sacrificed for an invasion of Buenos Aires?

See the post directly above yours for a suggestion, old boy.
 

67th Tigers

Banned
That was for 1808-1809, which is too late. I'm looking for 1806.

The perils of posting from memory:

" Expeditionary Forces

In July, Prime Minister Castlereagh instructed the Commander-in-Chief to form a disposable force of 30,000-50,000 infantry and 8,000-10,000 cavalry. They were to be stationed near Cork, Portsmouth, and East Kent.

A fleet would always be available to move about 10,000 men in one lift.

Four expeditions were planned or sent out from England in 1805, one under Eyre Coote to the West Indies; a second under James Craig to Malta and Sicily; a third under David Baird to the Mediterranean and then subsequently to the Cape of Good Hope; and the fourth under Lord Cathcart to Hanover.

The year 1806 saw numerous small actions by these forces: in January the British captured the Cape of Good Hope from the Dutch and then occupied Buenos Aires, Argentina five months later. In the Mediterranean, British forces from Sicily, attacked the Italian mainland and defeated the French forces under General Reynier at Maida, while another force landed in northern Germany."

-http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/organization/c_strengths.html
 

67th Tigers

Banned
K, that could work, either as part of the main invasion force or as reinforcements.

The initial invasion was Eyre Coote's doing, and only a brigade (1,500) detached from the West Indies theatre.

Had the government decided Argentina was a good bet (as they were coming round too later), then the men are there, it's a question of shipping. 10,000 is probably the limit, a 5th disposable force, probably organised as a typical 3 division "army" of about 9,000 infantry, a cavalry regiment (800) and 3-4 batteries of artillery. (each division of 2 brigades of 2 regiments, each regiment about 750-800 strong)
 
The initial invasion was Eyre Coote's doing, and only a brigade (1,500) detached from the West Indies theatre.

Had the government decided Argentina was a good bet (as they were coming round too later), then the men are there, it's a question of shipping. 10,000 is probably the limit, a 5th disposable force, probably organised as a typical 3 division "army" of about 9,000 infantry, a cavalry regiment (800) and 3-4 batteries of artillery. (each division of 2 brigades of 2 regiments, each regiment about 750-800 strong)

That could be enough for Buenos Aires, but what about the littoral and the interior areas, as well as the East Bank?
 

yofie

Banned
The Peninsula Army was apparently originally slated for Argentina! Under Lt Gen Wellesley!!!

Actually, from what I read, Wellesley and his men were to fight in Venezuela, not Argentina, with Francisco de Miranda (an early Venezuelan patriot). He would have done so if not for Joseph Bonaparte's invasion of Spain in 1808.

Plus, I really don't think that a majority of those British army units who fought in OTL in the Peninsular War would have gone to the River Plate region instead. From a British Army website I looked up a couple of years ago, I saw that there were literally hundreds of such army units in the Peninsular War, but only a small fraction of those who had fought in the River Plate in 1806-07. I mean, the Peninsular War was a massive undertaking, and the River Plate invasions were quite peanuts by comparison. Thus, a majority of all the British army units in existence would still have fought in the Peninsular War.
 
Actually, from what I read, Wellesley and his men were to fight in Venezuela, not Argentina, with Francisco de Miranda (an early Venezuelan patriot). He would have done so if not for Joseph Bonaparte's invasion of Spain in 1808.

K, so blow them off course and have them end up in Buenos Aires instead. Could that have worked?
 

Thande

Donor
Actually, from what I read, Wellesley and his men were to fight in Venezuela, not Argentina, with Francisco de Miranda (an early Venezuelan patriot). He would have done so if not for Joseph Bonaparte's invasion of Spain in 1808.
I hope no-one ever tells Chavez about that little factoid ;)

Very curious idea...
 
So, if the army of the low countries went to Venezuela, could we see British troops remain in Venezuela a little while after becoming independent? Bolivar would need time to help build a stable government. But trading one new master for another woudl not look good, hmmm
 
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