WI: Succesful Dutch Patriot Revolt in 1787

So, for whatever reason, there is no foreign intervention during the 1787 Dutch Civil War. Patriots don't head to France, but win the Civil War.

Now what?
 
Personaly i believe that change was necessary in the Dutch republic. The system was inefficient and corrupt to the bone. So the patriots winning would be a good thing, in a way. i have quite a lot of sympathy for the patriots, but I believe they made a lot of mistakes, for example supporting the Americans during the war of independence. The only thing they acomplished with it was to anger Britain, who simply defeated the Netherlands and stole an Indian colony (and it could have been much worse).

The patriots realy need to get their act together, know not to make enemies abroad and internaly reform the country; become neutral in foreign politics and you can get a better Netherlands out of it. I hope they can do it, but the Batavian republic wasn't that stable either. To be fair they did suffer from being a vasal country from France (although they did not realise it) and being at war with the rest of Europe.

Anyway the important thing is to avoid getting Prussia involved. Maybe they might somehow make a deal with the stadholder. Than it becomes interesting when the French revolution occurs. In this case there is a good chance the Netherlands remains neutral, but would France let them? Would France still want to annex State Overmaas (Maastricht), Flanders and Gelre, even if the Netherlands is neutral?
 
Very interesting idea.
Let asume the Stadholder and especially his wife is quit down or calmed down so no Prusisian interference.
Other thing, the more moderate faction will get the overhand fast. Most likely they will make good head way with reforms which would other wise be implemented and under force during the Batavian Republic and under French occupation.
One interesting thing would be how the Dutch Rpeublic will reacton the Brabant revolt of 1789-1790 and the United States of Belgium. In OTL the Dutch Republic refised aid, since they were ruled by the reactionairs but now the Dutch Republic is ruled by Patriots who most likely come to aid even the risks of war with Austrai and France could be high.
 
but now the Dutch Republic is ruled by Patriots who most likely come to aid even the risks of war with Austrai and France could be high.
That would be the stupid thing to do as the Dutch are in no way prepared to face either the Austrians or French.
 
Hmmm, I too think the result would be better for the Netherlands.
But really, how would France react to a Republican nation on their border once their own revolution starts? How would te Dutch themselves react?
 
You want my guess? Invade, annex the south and puupetize the rest, just like OTL.

I don't think they will like it, but at least now they will realise it.

While geopolitics definitely played a big role in France's OTL plans for the Netherlands (British may not land!), another big drive for the French forces were the patriots that had moved to France, asking for their country to be "liberated". Thats gone now.
 
While geopolitics definitely played a big role in France's OTL plans for the Netherlands (British may not land!), another big drive for the French forces were the patriots that had moved to France, asking for their country to be "liberated". Thats gone now.
The French had the delusion that everything south of the Rhine should be theirs for centuries. I personaly doubt they would stop now.
 
The French had the delusion that everything south of the Rhine should be theirs for centuries. I personaly doubt they would stop now.

I think you are incorrect.

Around 1789 Franche was too instable if not to say revolt, so it was not in the opportunity to intervene. Austria could be repelled if it wanted to resore their regime by a combination of Belgian and Dutch troops. The Belgias did defeat a smalle Austrian army. It could be done by force but most likely the Austians are brought to other thoughts by diplomacy, threat of intervening Prussia and or Russia mediating by the UK.
At nearly the same time the Revolution of Liege happend, in the Prince Bishopric of Liege, and Prusisan soldiers were station there, with that more or less supporting the revolt. Which make Prussian support not unlikly.

Bare in mind that the Brabant revolt was a reactionair revolt. The revolt was agains reforms in attemt to modernise and centralise the Austrian Netherlands.
The reson the Dutch republic did not came to aid was that the conservative regime was afraid that the Patriot movement flared up again in the Dutch Republic

Asume Austria will accept the situation as it is and will not intervene.
The Dutch Rpeublic ruled by Patriot movement (the moderate faction) and the confedration of the United State of Belgium, (ruled by the reactionair faction) could come to some sort of Conferation.

Now the French revolution succeeds as we know and it is ruled by a revolutionair government, or some kind.

The reson revolutionair France was invading the Austrian Netherlands was that it was threatened by Austria.
The reson that Revolutionair France was invading the Dutch Republic was because it was ruled by an anti revolutionair regime, linked to the conservative regimes of Europe and most likely was motivated to invade the Dutch republic by the Dutch Patriots living in excile in France.
All this motivations are now gone.
No doubt that sooner or later France will start to export the revolution but inessence nobody in th Autrian Netherlands was waiting on it and if the Patriot were in charge of the Dutch Republic ( the moederate) they were not keen on the much to radical French Revolution either.

The idea of the French North border should be at the Rhine is an 19th century idea it did not exsist in the 18th century. It is possible invented by Napoleon when he anexed the Austrian Nehterlands and created the Kingdom of Holland.
 
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The idea of the French North border should be at the Rhine is an 19th century idea it did not exsist in the 18th century. It is possible invented by Napoleon when he anexed the Austrian Nehterlands and created the Kingdom of Holland.
Are you sure about this? I thought it was an invention by either Louis XIV or Louis XIII (or one of their diplomats at least).
 
Are you sure about this? I thought it was an invention by either Louis XIV or Louis XIII (or one of their diplomats at least).

Yes, the whole idea of having "natural'' borders by mountains and rivers is from much later. This was contemplated after some romantics watched too much to the maps of Franche and ''discovered'' that most of Franche borders were'' natural'' exept in the Northern border.
Any how, the resons to of Revolutionair Franche to invade the Austrian Netherlands and the Dutch Republic were motivated not because of a disire of natural borders but to eliminate the enemies of the revolution. For some resons a revolutions never ends, at least for the ''revolutionairs'' who have intersed in this. :-/
 
Yes, the whole idea of having "natural'' borders by mountains and rivers is from much later. This was contemplated after some romantics watched too much to the maps of Franche and ''discovered'' that most of Franche borders were'' natural'' exept in the Northern border.
I always considered it an excuse for French expansionism and their natural borders would move the moment they had the Rhineborder. Especialy in the Netherlands, what exactly is the Rhine? The Waal? The Lek?, The Kromme/oude Rijn? The IJssel? The Ems?

But I was fairly sure the idea was older, especialy considering that in the 19th century France barely made a move against Belgium or Germany.
 
I always considered it an excuse for French expansionism and their natural borders would move the moment they had the Rhineborder. Especialy in the Netherlands, what exactly is the Rhine? The Waal? The Lek?, The Kromme/oude Rijn? The IJssel? The Ems?

But I was fairly sure the idea was older, especialy considering that in the 19th century France barely made a move against Belgium or Germany.

The Rhine is one of this rivers you mentioned for every body exept for the Dutch:)

It could not move North in the 19th century due to Balance of Power and the diplomatic constelation of that time. However Franche did made strong effort to control if not annex/vaslise Belgium after it gained independence.
 
Attached some maps of the Dutch Republic and the United States of the Netherlands. With Liege, not included it could form a Confedration which roughly comprise the modern Benelux.
Despite differnces a confedration could work better, than the later Kingdom of the Netherlands, since each State or Province was ruled according to their own common laws and habbits while mutual tasks, whitout an autocratic monarch dictated the laws or one of the other feld oppressed.

507px-.jpg
 
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